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Thread: ISU World standings as of 5/21/2014

  1. #31
    Yuzulia & Ruslena Team Alba's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CanadianSkaterGuy View Post
    Haha, Kostner has an everlasting smile... when she's on the ice, when she goes into her jumps, when she lands her jumps, when she falls on her jumps, and when she gets off the ice. Beautiful example of putting on a smile no matter what life throws at you.
    It's a good thing I suppose, and I like that in Caro because she doesn't look fake.

    I'm more like Yulia tbh, maybe that's why I like her so much. I don't over criticise myslef but I do find smiling all the time very dull.

    This is in general, in life. In Italy women often abuse with the term sunny. They often use to say "sono solare" - I'm sunny (?), to describe their personality. I hate that.

    Not speaking about Caro, she is not that type. She is one of the most disceet and polite athlete woman I've ever seen. Chapeau!

  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by sky_fly20 View Post
    Osmond is not on Top 24
    Well, that makes sense given her lack of competing due to injury. She's only competed in one GP event in the past 2 seasons, and not in as many competitions as other skaters (note that Kim is 11th for similar reasons). Had Osmond competed at 4CC 2014, and came 7th or better, she would be ranked 19th. Had she competed at both of her GPs and placed 7th in both of them she would also be ranked 19th.

    Let's say Osmond did both: came 7th at 4CC, and 7th in her GP events (when she probably would have come around 5th at 4CC, and done way better than 7th in her GP), she would be ranked 15th.

    Now let's say Osmond came 5th at 4CC and 5th in both of her GP events, which is realistic given the results of those competitions and her 170 score at Worlds... she'd be ranked 11th, higher than Kim.

    I know you hate Osmond, but being out of the top 24 means as much as Kim being out of the top 10.

    But if you want to take the rankings at face value... sure... let's have a look... oh, interesting... Gold (who according to you was slated to win or even medal at Olympics/Worlds) is not even in the top 5. Although old, worn-out Wagner is 4th.

  3. #33
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    Kim is 11th because she didn't compete in the GP in 2012-2013 and 2013-2014. Of course, she DID win Worlds 2014 and the 2014 Olympic silver medal and an International B in both 2012 and 2013.

    And no, Osmond being out of the top 24 does NOT mean as much as Kim being out of the top 10. Kim is an Olympic Champion, multiple World Champion and a multiple GPF Champion. Her standing on the ISU World Standings list means diddly squat in that context inasmuch as Kim has retired from the competitive scene.

    Osmond, OTOH, is a wannabe. Her only major championship so far is Skate Canada, back in 2012. Her placement on the ISU World Standing list IS significant because it shows that she has so far failed to live up to her early promise.

    As for Gold, 6th on the list is amazingly good considering that she has risen from the 18th place she was in last year at this time. And once the list is updated for retirements, she will be in the top 5 (#5 Suzuki has retired).

    BTW, Osmond was #32 on the list last year at this time. This year she is #30. With retirements, she might end up at #27 (Suzuki, Kim, Lacoste).

  4. #34
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    Wow, seems like you and sky_fly are sipping the same tank of Kool-Aid.

    Osmond was injured last season and couldn't compete on the GP/4CC. As I said, if she had poor results but still competed, she would be in the top 20, and if she came even top 5 in 4CC and her GPs she would have ranked 11th. So to attribute her ranking as due to poor ability or being a flash in the pan is simply inaccurate. And as inaccurate as attributing Kim's rank to her ability, even though it was due to a lack of competing (like Osmond) which was the point I was making.

    Rankings don't mean everything. Edmunds is ranked lower than Osmond, as is Park, and I would call her a poor skater.

    If Osmond stays healthy and does both of her GP events + 4CC this season, she will easily be in the top 15. If she stays healthy and skates well, she will easily be top 10.

  5. #35
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    And Gold rising from 18th to 6th is reflective of the fact that she had junior points going into her scores last season and now her ranking is reflective of purely senior results. 6th is impressive still but it's evident that there are others who are better than her. And this isn't even with the wave of Russian prospects. I have high hopes for Park but hope she doesn't have a relatively bad follow up season like Li.

  6. #36
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    Edmunds is ranked lower than Osmond only because she has just one season of data. She did not skate at all internationally in 2012-2013, while Osmond had an 8th place at Worlds and a GP and International B win.

    Edmunds did far outrank Osmond in the recent season, however, with two gold JGP medals and a 4th in the JGP, 9th in the Olympics, and 8th at Worlds 2014. Osmond bailed out of her lone GP and placed 13th in the Olympics and 11th at Worlds. On the Seasons World Ranking list, Edmunds is #17 and Osmond is #70 http://www.isuresults.com/ws/wr/wrladies.htm Gold is #6 and Wagner is #8.

    BTW Osmond couldn't have competed in 4CC this past season because NONE of the Olympic-bound skaters from NA did. It made no sense for skaters to lose that much training time to jet lag right before Sochi.

    As for this coming season, Osmond will be facing the same tough Russian competition as all the US skaters. The Russian ladies (and Gracie) have 7 triple free skates and Osmond cannot match that with her limited jump repertoire. They also now have a PCS edge given their high placements at Olympics/Worlds. It isn't going to be that easy for Kaetlyn to regain lost ground.

  7. #37
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    Exactly. I don't see why Edmunds and Kim get a pass for essentially only one season of data but Osmond doesn't, given her injuries causing her to miss the past GP season. And to boot she was only given one GP in 2012, and having won it she could have potentially made the GPF if she had another GP assignment that season. And as you said 4CC was close to the Olympics so attending that and easily boosting herself into the top 20 would have been possible if not for the Olympics.

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    Edmunds didn't "get a pass". That was her first international season EVER and she skated very, very well. In fact, it is quite unprecedented for a skater to do the first half of the season as a junior and the second half at Olympics and Worlds and finish top 10 at both Senior events.

    Kim has had her share of injuries too. She has a chronic back injury (bulging discs in her lower back) which cause her severe pain and limit her ability to do layback spins. That is why she withdrew from the GP in the 2012-2013 season and didn't do the GP this past season. Over her career she has been very careful with her competitions so as not to aggravate the injury. Despite that, she has amassed Olympic gold and silver, two World Championships, a 4CC Championship, 3 GPF Championships, a JW Championship and a JGPF Championship. She has never finished off the podium at any competition in which she has participated.

    As for what Kaetlyn would have done had she gone to 4CC, looking at her Sochi FS and the FSs of the top skaters at 4CC, she wouldn't have fared that well at 4CC if she had gone. In the SP, the top 8 all did 3/3s; Kaetlyn did only 3t+2t at Sochi and stepped out of the 2a, and she landed only 4 triples in the FS. In the 4CC FS, some of the top ladies landed 6 or 7 triples and most landed 5. At best, she might have finished 6th or 7th.

  9. #39
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    Personally I am not sold on Edmunds. Won two JGP against extremely weak competition. At JPG final was beaten out by three girls 2 years younger than her and just missed being beaten out by a fourth.

    US Nationals for the women is like an event with no real competition.

    At Olympics basically finished at the bottom of the group of girls that were at all viable. Worlds same thing.

    I think it was a respectable start but I don't think she did anything that some of these girls younger than her couldn't have done.

  10. #40
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    Hmmm, username YLFan and immediately starts on the bashing of Edmunds.

    Gee...

  11. #41
    Yuzulia & Ruslena Team Alba's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by karne View Post
    Hmmm, username YLFan and immediately starts on the bashing of Edmunds.

    Gee...
    Being a Yulia fan it doesn't automatically mean that you start bashing other skaters.
    I'm a Yulia fan and I very much like both Edmunds and Gold.

    I think in this case the user YLFan doesn't like Edmunds very much. I don't see any problem, and I don't think she is attacking her. Not yet at least.

  12. #42
    Size 7 Knife Boots Sam-Skwantch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by karne View Post
    Hmmm, username YLFan and immediately starts on the bashing of Edmunds.

    Gee...
    Doesn't matter who said it if its true. Other than this
    US Nationals for the women is like an event with no real competition.
    . What is exaggerated or bashing? How do you think Polina would have placed at JWC? Don't get me wrong here. It was wise to send her to Sochi and Worlds and probably ramped up her reputation more than a 2nd 3rd or even a 4th at JWC. She clearly wasn't going to and likely won't beat Radinova. So it's likely that there really are girls not only younger but even more importantly more experienced that could have gotten similar results or improved upon them.

    I'd be completely lying if I didn't tell you I'm impressed with Polina...not so much at Olympics but more so after Worlds. Maybe it was how she consistently held up. Not sure why TBH It really will be interesting to see her on the GP. The experience from the Olympics and Worlds may serve to catch her up to speed like a crash course! Then again no one expected anything out of her this year. That's about to change. We shall see

    Didn't Polina and Gracie do well enough to secure three spots at Worlds between them? I guess to be fair two 15 yr olds from a Russia did too.

  13. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by chuckm View Post
    Edmunds didn't "get a pass". That was her first international season EVER and she skated very, very well. In fact, it is quite unprecedented for a skater to do the first half of the season as a junior and the second half at Olympics and Worlds and finish top 10 at both Senior events.

    Kim has had her share of injuries too. She has a chronic back injury (bulging discs in her lower back) which cause her severe pain and limit her ability to do layback spins. That is why she withdrew from the GP in the 2012-2013 season and didn't do the GP this past season. Over her career she has been very careful with her competitions so as not to aggravate the injury. Despite that, she has amassed Olympic gold and silver, two World Championships, a 4CC Championship, 3 GPF Championships, a JW Championship and a JGPF Championship. She has never finished off the podium at any competition in which she has participated.

    As for what Kaetlyn would have done had she gone to 4CC, looking at her Sochi FS and the FSs of the top skaters at 4CC, she wouldn't have fared that well at 4CC if she had gone. In the SP, the top 8 all did 3/3s; Kaetlyn did only 3t+2t at Sochi and stepped out of the 2a, and she landed only 4 triples in the FS. In the 4CC FS, some of the top ladies landed 6 or 7 triples and most landed 5. At best, she might have finished 6th or 7th.
    Why are you using her Sochi individual SP & FS to prove your point? I could easily argue that Osmond's skated the team SP and FS before the individual, and thus" closer" to 4CC. Her team SP (which she did cleanly with 3-3, mind you) and team LP were what her 4CC programs could have been (since she did those closer to 4CC than her individual SP+FS). In those programs she scored 62 points and 110 points... and with a score of 172 points, it would have placed her 5th at 4CC.

    And you're missing my point... the rankings are based on participation in junior and senior events. I would never hold it against Edmunds for her ranking because it incorporates a junior season and a senior season. Just as I would never hold it against Kim's ranking because she skipped most of the 2013 season and withdrew from the GP in the 2012-2013 season as you said, dropping her ranking. Just as I would never hold it against Osmond's ranking because she missed 3 GP opportunities (having only been given 1 in 2012... which could have also led to more points if she made the GPF; and having been injured in 2013) and skipped 4CC because of its proximity to the Olympics (one imagines that she knew she'd be skating team SP+LP and individual SP+LP so she didn't want to wear herself out). And as I pointed out, even marginally decent showings at GP events this year would have easily put her in the top 20, and had she skated at 4CC she likely would have ended up 5th or 6th, which would have also put her in the top 20.

  14. #44
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    Osmond still did only 4 triples in the team event FS--pretty consistent for her this season--and that makes finishing 5th at 4CC very doubtful. Even if Osmond had gone to 4CC and finished in 5th-6th place, she would have finished in 28th-29th place in the rankings, NOT in the top 20. A skater gets only the highest ISU international points scored. Osmond wouldn't get 4CC plus Worlds, she would get the 551-496 points for a 5th-6th place at 4CC instead of the 418 points she got for the 11th place at Worlds.

  15. #45
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    I'm a little confused about why Richard Dornbush is so high, higher than Jason Brown?

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