Politics and economics of the 2022 Olympic Winter Games

Matt K said:

No offense to Beijing but I pray it will not be Beijing.

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How is this NOT an offense to Beijing? At this point we should be thankful any country is willing to pay up and host. I was at the 2008 Olympics, and it was totally great. Mishaps happen at EVERY Olympics - didn't hear about the US swimmers getting sick, but that certainly didn't stop Phelps from sweeping all those golds. I'll admit I had a good chuckle at the media blowup about Sochi nightmares, but plenty of people I knew who went found no issues and raved about the organization. London put up the North Korean flag for South Korea and lost the keys to a stadium for heavens sake. I might be reading into things, but there seems to be some distinct xenophobic undertones in some of these posts here. So what if East Asia holds a few Olympics back to back - it's not like the Olympics haven't been held in Western nations back to back to back to back (or the US multiple times) ever before.

That being said, I don't really get why Beijing was put forth by China as the bid for the Winter Games. Harbin would've been the much more logical choice imo. I do actually hope Almaty gets it in the end though, mostly because I think a lot of Kazakhs are looking forward to and excited about it, whereas I think the general consensus in China is bidding for the winter games wasn't a great idea.

meteorlight8 said:

How is this NOT an offense to Beijing? At this point we should be thankful any country is willing to pay up and host. I was at the 2008 Olympics, and it was totally great. Mishaps happen at EVERY Olympics - didn't hear about the US swimmers getting sick, but that certainly didn't stop Phelps from sweeping all those golds. I'll admit I had a good chuckle at the media blowup about Sochi nightmares, but plenty of people I knew who went found no issues and raved about the organization. London put up the North Korean flag for South Korea and lost the keys to a stadium for heavens sake. I might be reading into things, but there seems to be some distinct xenophobic undertones in some of these posts here. So what if East Asia holds a few Olympics back to back - it's not like the Olympics haven't been held in Western nations back to back to back to back (or the US multiple times) ever before.

That being said, I don't really get why Beijing was put forth by China as the bid for the Winter Games. Harbin would've been the much more logical choice imo.

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I was born quite close to Beijing... and I don't want the games there either. (You're free to want the games there... but not everyone who disagrees is a xenophobe. They might have legitimate reasons. The pollution is certainly no joke.)

Sandpiper said:

I was born quite close to Beijing... and I don't want the games there either. (You're free to want the games there... but not everyone who disagrees is a xenophobe. They might have legitimate reasons. The pollution is certainly no joke.)

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I was just editing my post to elaborate more on my personal views - I actually would prefer for Almaty to host too. I didn't say everyone who disagrees is xenophobic - I said SOME posts come off that way TO ME (I also acknowledged I may have been reading into it too much, but that's how I personally felt/interpreted some of those posts, which I'm free to do).

Edited: also fwiw before Oslo withdrew I was hoping for it to get the bid.

meteorlight8 said:

I was just editing my post to elaborate more on my personal views - I actually would prefer for Almaty to host too. I didn't say everyone who disagrees is xenophobic - I said SOME posts come off that way TO ME (I also acknowledged I may have been reading into it too much, but that's how I personally felt/interpreted some of those posts, which I'm free to do).

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You're free to interpret the posts however you like, of course. I just felt your interpretation to be unlikely, so I pointed that out. For instance, I believe Meoima is Asian herself, so xenophobia is not likely the reason.

(Also, to clarify my stance: just because I don't want the games in Beijing doesn't mean I want them in Almaty either. It's just bad choice vs. bad choice).

Sandpiper said:

You're free to interpret the posts however you like, of course. I just felt your interpretation to be unlikely, so I pointed that out. For instance, I believe Meoima is Asian herself, so xenophobia is not likely the reason.
(Also, to clarify my stance: just because I don't want the games in Beijing doesn't mean I want them in Almaty either. It's just bad choice vs. bad choice).

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If it's Beijing, it would be very easy to me to go and watch FS. Since I live near China as hell.
But... I still remember how China invested in Olympic 2008 and all the problems went along with it. :scowl:

It's a lesser of 2 evils, I preferred Oslo but somehow I knew it wouldn't happen since nobody there wants it. My sister was there this summer, said there was no sun and she went out for one day without a face mask and had a cough for days after that. She said her throat would burn if she was outside for too long. Imagine all the tourists and athletes that are going to be there, what will happen to them?

Krunchii said:

It's a lesser of 2 evils, I preferred Oslo but somehow I knew it wouldn't happen since nobody there wants it. My sister was there this summer, said there was no sun and she went out for one day without a face mask and had a cough for days after that. She said her throat would burn if she was outside for too long. Imagine all the tourists and athletes that are going to be there, what will happen to them?

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Maybe that's Beijing's secret evil plan. Make all the foreign athletes (who aren't used to the pollution) sick so they'll win all the medals.

gravy said:

Totally expected. Norwegian citizens just didn't want the games in Oslo.

Beijing will get the games then because there is no way the IOC will let Almaty become the next Sochi (financially) and scare off future bidders.

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A lot depends on the harsh requirements by the IOC I think. The financial aspect is really a big problem, the IOC has loads of demands like own tracks on the road for their members, a specific temperature in all rooms ...

In my opinion the last Olympics where I was lost a lot of their original appeal. Its no longer something for the athletes but for officials and especially not the fans.

Not putting blame on anyone but ya the whole sports world must get back to the crowds and athletes because they make sport possible.

Should they consider downsizing the games a little bit. Instead of increasing the sport, limit them. Or consider making more frequent but smaller events. It seems that the current model for the olympic games is not going to be sustainable in face pf the challenges presented in this century.

Alex D said:

A lot depends on the harsh requirements by the IOC I think. The financial aspect is really a big problem, the IOC has loads of demands like own tracks on the road for their members, a specific temperature in all rooms ...

In my opinion the last Olympics where I was lost a lot of their original appeal. Its no longer something for the athletes but for officials and especially not the fans.

Not putting blame on anyone but ya the whole sports world must get back to the crowds and athletes because they make sport possible.

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Exactly. That's why Norway (the leader in WOG medals) refused to host the games. We certainly have the money (oil country), the infrastructure, the winter sports tradition, but we are not willing to use our money to treat the IOC to a 2 week, all-expenses paid party when it should be about the athletes and the fans.

When the IOC demands that they meet with the king of Norway and hope to leave the bar tab for the royal family or the Norwegian Olympic Committee instead of themselves... that's a red flag. Those demands you speak of were ridiculous (http://distrita.com/ioc-requirements-for-olympic-games-is-quite-massive/) and I'm glad the people of Norway voted no to the games, even thought I would have loved to see Oslo host 2022.

And the statement the IOC released after Oslo withdrew it's bid was infuriating because they're just lashing out against Norway. They claim that Sochi made a profit (LOL) and that Norwegian athletes will suffer. Enough is enough for the IOC.

Funny how the only countries interested in hosting 2022 are those where the people have no say.

So. Kazakhstan or China. Talk about the lesser of two evils situation.

I am glad that Norway has taken a stand on this, but I still wish they could have had the games...


Recently I went to Sydney, and went for a walk around the Olympic Park. It is still pristine, still in top condition, and every facility there still in use (I went swimming there that very day, and the night before a football game had taken place at the main stadium). But I have to wonder how many other countries can consider themselves as lucky as we are - how many facilities sit quiet and empty and rotting like the ones of Athens and Beijing...

gravy said:

And the statement the IOC released after Oslo withdrew it's bid was infuriating because they're just lashing out against Norway.

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I was surprised at the patronizing tone of the IOC statement. It was as though they were saying, "Let us explain what a bunch of morons you are for not doing what we want you to do."

Please. I saw that rider list. The IOC had more demands than Mariah Carey on tour, minus the Hello Kitty and buckets of Cristal.

So, Denis Ten will be the face of 2022?

anyanka said:

Please. I saw that rider list. The IOC had more demands than Mariah Carey on tour, minus the Hello Kitty and buckets of Cristal.
So, Denis Ten will be the face of 2022?

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I didn't know IOC is such a diva. :scowl:

When the bidders were announced, I was fully behind Almaty.

Norway has already hosted the Winter Olympics twice (Oslo in 1952, and Lillehammer in 1994). Beijing has already hosted the 2008 Summer Olympics. Apart from 3 countries in the Far East (China, Japan and Korea), no Asian countries have hosted an Olympic Games, be it Summer or Winter. So, it would be unfair if Kazakhstan were to miss out in favour of a country that has already hosted at least 1 Olympics.

Krunchii has said that it would not be fair to have 3 Winter Olympics in a row in Asia (after Sochi in 2014 and Pyeongchang in 2018). And I fully agree. That said, it’s not as if having 3 consecutive Olympics in the same continent hasn’t happened before. Directly after the war, we had 3 Winter Olympics in Europe:

1948: St. Moritz, Switzerland
1952: Oslo, Norway
1956: Cortina d’Ampezzo, Italy

There’s just one problem with that argument. Because Sochi is North of the Caucasus and West of the Urals, it is technically in Europe. So, if Almaty or Beijing got the 2022 Games, it would only be 2 Olympics in a row. And that has happened lots of times.

After the over-the-top spending on building everything from scratch in Sochi, I would not want a repeat performance in Beijing. At least Oslo and Almaty both have most of the facilities in place already! (Oslo hosted the Winter Olympics in 1952, while Almaty hosted the Asian Winter Games in 2011).



Now, apologies that this comment is going to be leaning towards the ski jumping side of things, but there are reasons I am doing that. Not only is it the biggest sports facility that needs to built for a Winter Games, but it is also a facility that cannot be re-used for other things (ice rinks and ski racing facilities can be used by the general public; ski jumping hills can only be used by specialists). Plus, it was problems that arose with building the ski jumping hill that played a large part in making the Sochi Olympics so expensive.

Kazakhstan hosted the Asian Games in 2011, with ice sports held in Astana and ski sports held in Almaty.

Almaty’s ski jumping hills were completed in 2010, and since then have been a regular feature on the Summer Grand Prix Series.

Another winter sports venue built in preparation for the 2011 season was at Erzerum, Turkey. Erzurum did a great job hosting the Universiade in 2011, and the Nordic Ski World Championships in 2012.

Like in Almaty, the ski jumping hills in Erzerum were completed in 2010. However, in July this year, this happened:

https://www.facebook.com/Berkutschi.Skijumping/posts/10152254566892151

Now, I don’t know exactly what happened at Erzerum. All I know is what is in those photos. But, when you have hills that are barely 4 years old getting totally destroyed like this, it does raise questions.

Natural disasters are hard to predict. But, surely the planners would have thought about the possibilities of landslides, and taken as many steps as possible to try to prevent something like this happening.

I’m not saying there was anything untoward about the construction of the hills in Erzerum. But, when you do hear about brand new, state-of-the-art facilities getting destroyed so easily, it doesn’t do much for your confidence in modern construction techniques, and about major sports venues being built to a strict deadline.

And I realise that just because the hills in Almaty were built the same year as the hills in Erzerum, it doesn’t mean that they are going to fall down too. But, it does plant the seed of doubt in your mind.

So, because of that, I kinda went off the idea of holding the 2022 Olympics in Kazakhstan. And I started supporting Norway.

Oslo has vast experience in hosting major winter sports events. All the Nordic Ski disciplines hold a joint round of their World Cups at the Holmenkollen complex every year.

Plus, the Holmenkollen ski jumping hill has been in use (in various guises) for 100 years.

But, now that Norway has pulled out, I am back with Almaty.

CaroLiza_fan

IOC members will be received with a smile on arrival at hotel

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Seriously?

During the opening and closing ceremonies, there must be full bar available. On competition days, it’s ok with just beer and wine in the lounge at the stadium.

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So high quality wine isn't a

drink of “high quality”

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?



It's as if IOC were begging for Oslo to withdray, with those kind of requirements.

I think, because figure skating is still something people pay to watch in other parts of the world (and sometimes in the US), if the winter games were to fall by the wayside, figure skating will return to the Summer Olympics.

Those demands are real? What kind of unfunny prank...

humbaba said:

I was surprised at the patronizing tone of the IOC statement. It was as though they were saying, "Let us explain what a bunch of morons you are for not doing what we want you to do."

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Yup. And to top it off, it's like Christophe Dubi ends by saying, "Just kidding for insulting your intelligence! We still have to deal with you for the Youth Olympics in Lillehammer."

CaroLiza_fan said:

Krunchii has said that it would not be fair to have 3 Winter Olympics in a row in Asia (after Sochi in 2014 and Pyeongchang in 2018). And I fully agree. That said, it’s not as if having 3 consecutive Olympics in the same continent hasn’t happened before. Directly after the war, we had 3 Winter Olympics in Europe:

1948: St. Moritz, Switzerland
1952: Oslo, Norway
1956: Cortina d’Ampezzo, Italy

There’s just one problem with that argument. Because Sochi is North of the Caucasus and West of the Urals, it is technically in Europe. So, if Almaty or Beijing got the 2022 Games, it would only be 2 Olympics in a row. And that has happened lots of times.

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When people speak of 3 consecutive Olympics in Asia, they are including the summer edition: 2018 Pyeongchang, 2020 Tokyo, 2022 China or Kazakhstan.

Hilarious Diva list... I can only guess of the luxury Swags they have gotten a la Sochi to start demands like this. Of all things, you'd thought it is the IOC members the big stars every 4 years, the athletes are just +1s.

Sound like it is time to get rid of those running the IOC.

The system is clearly broken. IOCs's excess seems more indicative of 80s self indulgence, greed, egotism, likely corrupted with those power hungry demanding lot. Time to reflect the 21st century awakening and evaluate lessons learnt. Sustainability, Eco games (consider recycling?), better budgeting, less commercialism/capitalism, more giving back to the people, the sportsmen, the world.

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Dear IOC members,

Ask not what what the Olympics can do for you, but what you can do for the Olympics spirit.


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Dear Beijing,

It is time to bargain hard and be smart. Time for the wake up call for those fatcats who think they can continue to rip off rich Chinese, but they have no idea how shrewd Chinese can really be doing business. If the deal doesn't make sense, don't do it. Egg on their faces, omelettes extra salty.

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Dear Almaty,

Utilise every underdog cliches possible in your bid, and emotional blackmail your way through with your great 'work ethic', 'humble status' and 'eager to please' pitch. Like all the best pitches, promise more than you can deliver and you'd be just fine. Take great inspiration from the following western movies and beat those lot at their own game.

"American Hustle"
"Dirty Rotten Scoundrels"
"Catch me if you can"
"A Fish called Wanda"
"Oceans Eleven" "Oceans Twelve" (Optional... it is a bit crap!)
"Thomas Crown Affair"
"The Talented Mr. Ripley"
"Borat"

Good luck!!