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Thread: Butterfly twist spin

  1. #1
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    Butterfly twist spin

    So in figure skating, there's the butterfly spin:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i86ii3UYQ3A

    In martial arts, there's the butterfly kick:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vbefem-b8p8

    In martial arts, however, there's also the butterfly twist, where the person brings the leg together for additional rotation prior to opening up for the landing, and land on the takeoff leg rather than the free leg:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FANANbxjUqk

    There are also moves along this line which are just adding to the number of rotations in midair, such as the hypertwist (landing on the free leg) and the double butterfly twist:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Twujdrl7qGA
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u1nn7UGnxx4

    My question is, would it be possible to incorporate those rotations into the butterfly spin? If so, then why don't people do it? (I assume it adds to the difficulty.) If not, then why not?

    My guess is that the two moves, though similar in form, are working at cross purposes; for a butterfly spin, it's to get rotation for the subsequent spin, while for a butterfly twist, the goal is to get height (to have enough time to do the rotation), so you're kind of driving the jump in different directions. But it seems like you should in principle be able to get enough height for a butterfly twist or a hypertwist and still have enough rotation for the spin afterwards.

    I'd try it myself but knowing me I'd get my skates tangled together in the air

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    Wicked Yankee Girl dorispulaski's Avatar
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    Here's Robert Wagenhoffer, who did a butterfly kick type maneuver at the end of his programs
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8VpRLVzvT8s
    Last edited by dorispulaski; 08-26-2015 at 08:48 AM.

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    Lately I've been preoccupied with other things so haven't looked much at skating, but I came across this video which is the closest I've found to what I had in mind:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iyEBa73pOgw

    He had to put his hands down in the end, but otherwise, his takeoff form was pretty good (he could probably have wrapped his feet more in the air though to get around faster).

    I guess so if it's doable, then the next question is why more elite skaters don't do this move, since they obviously have the height for good butterfly spins?

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    At the rink. Again. mskater93's Avatar
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    Because it's exhausting and there are a lot of other fish to fry so to speak to get your points.

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    Funny enough, I've actually attempted this! I can do a pretty reliable butterfly twist off-ice (thanks to a background in wushu/martial arts). The problem is on-ice, it's a lot trickier to do a butterfly kick, let alone a twist (skates are heavy!). It's actually a bit of a dangerous maneuver because if you flip off your toepick/blade, you're essentially falling parallel to the ice. I also used to do an aerial (i.e. the Wagenhoffer wagon wheel), but had to stop because it would leave massive holes in the ice and the impact can ruin your skates/feet.

    I'm assuming though if one were able to pull off a b-twist into a spin, it would automatically get a level for the difficult entrance, but unfortunately there's nothing in the rules that would give it a higher level than a typical butterfly entrance (other than maybe higher GOE).

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    Custom Title leafygreens's Avatar
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    I was thinking try it in the harness but then the harness might get tangled since you're horizontal instead of vertical.

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    So I found out...Richard Dornbush recently did what I had in mind at the 2015 Freezer Aerial Challenge. You can see it after his backflip at around the 2:38 mark here:

    http://web.icenetwork.com/video/v216788383

    Another view, from a fancam, at around 0:33, here:

    https://www.facebook.com/figureskati...3986691137538/

    He keeps his legs fairly open (spread apart) in the air, which isn't atypical for a single revolution butterfly twist that has enough height; with more height of course it's possible to get more rotation out of it by bringing the legs together briefly. (I'm not criticizing him or anything, just saying that this move has the potential for doubles etc. just like any "regular" figure skating jump.)

    Unlike jumps on a vertical axis, jumps on a horizontal axis can land on either foot. Here, he lands on his left foot on a left back edge (seems like at moment of landing it's outside, then quickly transitions to inside for the spin). With a bit more rotation, he can land on his right foot and go into a back spin; in wushu this is called a hypertwist (example here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lwucNgSG_Tg ). It's essentially just a regular butterfly spin entry but with this extra rotation in the air.

    I wonder if we'll see this in an actual skating competition (err, although I don't know if there's a rule that forbids this, maybe the same rule that prevents backflips?).
    Last edited by Vanshilar; 07-16-2015 at 05:28 PM.

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