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Thread: Zijun Li vs. Kaetlyn Osmond: The Unsung Rivalry

  1. #46
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    Yes Gracie let a Bronze medal slip through her fingers at Worlds but if clean she would have stomped Wagner in the FS yet again. Net season she will be settled with her coach and has no excuse not to do well on the GP.

  2. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by chuckm View Post
    In order of finish, free skate:
    3f, 2a+3t<, 3s, 3lo^2a, 3ze, 3lo, 3f<+2t+2t WAGNER 5 triples
    3z+3t, 3f+1lo<+3s, 2a, 3f, 3z, 3lo+2t, 2a EDMUNDS 7 triples
    3z, 2a+2t, 3f+3t↓,1lo, 1f, 2a, 3s+2t+1lo KOSTNER 3 triples
    3z+3t, 1a, 3lo, 3fe, 3z, 3s+2t+2t, 2a<<↓ GOLD 6 triples
    2ze+2t+2lo<, 2a+3t<<, 3z, 3f<, 3lo, 3s+2t, 3s SUZUKI 4 triples

    Gold landed 6 triples, the same as Lipnitskaia. Only Pogo and Polina landed more (7). All of the other skaters (including the winner, Asada) landed fewer triples. So if you choose to call that bombing, go ahead.
    Gold singled an axel, which was a loss of at least 2.5 points, and then she downgraded a double axel and turned a 2A+3T into a 2A<<, a loss of over 9 points. She also had a shaky loop as well (I won't count the lip against her, but that was still technically an error). She gave up over 11 points technically. Scored just 58.58 points of TES, when at the Olympics she scored 69.57. This cost her the bronze medal which would have otherwise easily been hers. She is to be commended for 6 triples, but it's not like her 7th triple was unclean - it wasn't even executed due to the fall... couple that with her axel errors and she essentially lost the value of 2 triple lutzes. So, at best, she "really" executed the value of 4 (or 5 if we're being generous) triples, compared to a skater like Wagner who did only 5 clean triples to Gold's 6, but at least her other triples garnered her points because she didn't pop/fall on them.

    To put it another way, Wagner with a 3F< and 3T< didn't lose the points that Gold lost on her 2A<< (hence Wagner's TES being over 5 points higher than Gold's). That's why it's ridiculous that Wagner's PCS was just marginally higher than Gold's... Wagner performed her skate with much greater conviction/expression, and without any visible errors (singles/falls) that detracted from the program.

    The 2A errors still need to be considered, as do UR jumps that still garner points. Unless you want to say that Chan's fall on his 2A at 2012 Worlds is completely negligible, and he still did 2 quads and 6 triples to Takahashi's 1 quad and 7 triples, and thus without a doubt deserved to be ahead of Dai in the FS.

  3. #48
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    ^I'm actually cool with Chan having a (slightly) higher technical score than Dai there. The problem is I don't think Chan should've had the higher artistic scores, especially considering the fall, which imo was a disruptive one. I have a bigger problem with one-quad, one fall-in-footwork Yuzu placing ahead of clean Dai.

    Totally agree with the point you're making about Ashley vs. Gracie though. The difference between their performances as a lot more than the PCS showed. Especially since Gracie's mistakes were much more disruptive.

  4. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by CanadianSkaterGuy View Post
    Gold singled an axel, which was a loss of at least 2.5 points, and then she downgraded a double axel and turned a 2A+3T into a 2A<<, a loss of over 9 points. She also had a shaky loop as well (I won't count the lip against her, but that was still technically an error). She gave up over 11 points technically. Scored just 58.58 points of TES, when at the Olympics she scored 69.57. This cost her the bronze medal which would have otherwise easily been hers. She is to be commended for 6 triples, but it's not like her 7th triple was unclean - it wasn't even executed due to the fall...
    No, you are wrong. The 2a+3t was on the singled axel, not at the end of the program. Gracie landed all of her other triples. Those 6 triples did at least allow her to finish 7th in the FS and 5th overall, unlike Osmond who was 13th in the FS and 11th overall.

    You keep saying how Osmond was injured yada, yada, yada.

    But then you make no allowances for how all the other ladies at Worlds (except Pogo, who wasn't at Sochi or Euros) had had a pretty tough competitive season, with the GP, International Bs, 4CC or Euros, Sochi Team, Sochi singles, and then Worlds. It's no wonder that many of the skaters left their best performances behind them on Sochi ice.

  5. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by chuckm View Post
    Maybe she would get more credit for her transitions if she could get through her free skates without disruptive falls. She has never been able to do so over the past two seasons.
    She didn't receive credits for the SP as well, and she did get throught her SP very well.

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    One thing that I have never understand this season is Why Ashley Wagner manage to finish ahead of Kaetlyn Osmond in the Olympic team competition ? Kaetlyn have a clean skate here compare to Ashley who skate one of her poor showing this season (two foot landing on the combo, underotated triple toe on the combo, double axel borderline underotated, she is overrated by the sponsor of USFS)

    Even Mirai Nagasu, would have skate better than Ashley at the team competition, this should have been Mirai or Polina Olympic Silver medal, what a shame for both of them.

  7. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by coolboogie22;946539[B
    ]One thing that I have never understand this season is Why Ashley Wagner manage to finish ahead of Kaetlyn Osmond in the Olympic team competition ?[/B] Kaetlyn have a clean skate here compare to Ashley who skate one of her poor showing this season (two foot landing on the combo, underotated triple toe on the combo, double axel borderline underotated, she is overrated by the sponsor of USFS).
    Me neither. For me the top three on the short that night should've been: Carolina, Yulia, Kaetlyn.
    The funny thing is that Wagner was pissed off with her marks.

  8. #53
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    Back on topic, I got to see Zijun live at 2013 World's, and she immediately became a favorite. I watched 2014 World's in the US, and the very limited coverage didn''t show Zijun at all, so with her injuries and limited TV, I haven't seen her in a year. Has the puberty monster hit her yet?, and if so, how much has she grown?

  9. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by b-man View Post
    Back on topic, I got to see Zijun live at 2013 World's, and she immediately became a favorite. I watched 2014 World's in the US, and the very limited coverage didn''t show Zijun at all, so with her injuries and limited TV, I haven't seen her in a year. Has the puberty monster hit her yet?, and if so, how much has she grown?
    Yes, I'm surprised nobody had mentioned it. She's definitely a bit taller and more filled out.

    2013: http://ec2-54-199-179-177.ap-northea...ZijunLi1_1.jpg

    2014: http://static.isu.org/media/132704/f...20140124093613

  10. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mrs. P View Post
    Yes, I'm surprised nobody had mentioned it. She's definitely a bit taller and more filled out.

    2013: http://ec2-54-199-179-177.ap-northea...ZijunLi1_1.jpg

    2014: http://static.isu.org/media/132704/f...20140124093613
    Thanks Mrs. P. Yes, it looks like she filled out a little, but not enough to make her uncompetitive. I can't really tell from the photo how tall she is now.

  11. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by b-man View Post
    Thanks Mrs. P. Yes, it looks like she filled out a little, but not enough to make her uncompetitive. I can't really tell from the photo how tall she is now.
    She is a lot taller now, I also dont know exactly, but in an interview it was about 5,6cm. and during Sochi, when Mao saw Zijun, she said wow you are so much taller now, even taller than me, something like that. my guess she is 165 cm now

  12. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by chuckm View Post
    Maybe she would get more credit for her transitions if she could get through her free skates without disruptive falls. She has never been able to do so over the past two seasons.
    Oh, for a second I thought you were talking about Gold, who's had disruptive falls in all of her international competitions this past year (and a stepout with two hands down at US Nationals). Although, in Gold's case, it seems her PCS increases in spite of her typical falls.

    As for Osmond "never been able to do so", she skated two clean programs at Nationals this year.

  13. #58
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    It doesn't look like puberty affected Zijin too much, although she does need to work on honing her overall presentation. She's still pretty rough around the edges, but I'm rooting for her to do well

  14. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by CanadianSkaterGuy View Post
    Oh, for a second I thought you were talking about Gold, who's had disruptive falls in all of her international competitions this past year (and a stepout with two hands down at US Nationals). Although, in Gold's case, it seems her PCS increases in spite of her typical falls.

    As for Osmond "never been able to do so", she skated two clean programs at Nationals this year.
    Nationals don't count for international PCS. And since Osmond's limited triple repertoire allows her to plan only 6 triples in her FS, her falls on triples leave her with 5 triples or less---4 this season for her international free skates.
    That doesn't exactly help PCS, which builds off skating skills. And Osmond's FS has no 3/3 while Gold's has had a 3z+3t and a minimum of 6 triples.

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    Kostner's FS didn't have a 3-3 planned in her Worlds FS (and her 3F+3T was unplanned and fell), and yet her PCS was the highest at Worlds... not to mention, a personal best for her... with a fall. Lipnitskaia and Gold both fell in their Olympic individual freeskates, and got higher PCS than their clean individual FS. So, I'm not following this logic that Osmond needs to stop falling to bring her PCS up, when other skaters have fallen all year and their PCS has seen increases.

    For her PCS to increase, Osmond needs to work on her overall presentation in her freeskates ... I find them lacking the right personality and presentation that her SP shows. Obviously, skating cleaner will help (duh), but she's clearly shown that she's capable of skating clean competitions, she (like Gold and Li) just has to do it internationally. Doing an extra double axel instead of a 3L (which, mind you, Kim does too) isn't really a big deal either... it's less than 2 points of difference. Not to mention, she doesn't do a 3-3 in her FS because she doesn't want to use up the 3T as the repeated triple (note that skaters like Suzuki, Meite and Kostner employ this same strategy and don't go for 3T-3T in their FS).

    Next season, if she's in healthy form, her intended FS layout will probably look something like: 3F+3T, 3Z, 2A, 3T, 3S, 3F, 2A+2T+2T. If she learns the loop (which she doesn't attempt at the moment), then it could increase to 7 triples, but as Kim (who doesn't do a loop) and Kostner (who won Worlds without a lutz), it's not completely essential to have all 5 triples. Obviously Osmond isn't nearly the same calibre, but she's not giving up more than 2 or 3 points by opting for a 2A instead of a 3L.

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