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Thread: 2014 Nebelhorn Trophy

  1. #916
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    Nov 2006
    Kaitlin Hawayek & Jean-Luc Baker’s FD:

    Number of jumps: 3
    Number of small hoops: 12

    Why are girls able to work properly with free leg and boys not…well, Jean-Luc looks to be three steps above Andrew and ten steps above Evan in this “free leg trouble“…his free leg is not fully extended, but at least I can say the leg is ALMOST extended – there is a visible effort to work with free leg.

    The couple has good Skating Skills. They need to improve work of knees, work of both upper and lower body – muscles more strengthened and all movements should be finished…which is not happening always. Overall the couple is technically good and if they will work hard I believe that in future THIS will be the couple who can take close to technical abilities of top Russians dancers (B&S, I&Z&K&S).

    Kaitlin & Jean-Luc have visibly better Skating Skills then Madison & Evan, but in judges eyes they got about 0,88 less in FD and more then one point less in SD…even with new judging experiment…this only proves that no system is able to judge properly the real qualities not looking at names and previous results of the couples.

    I am not sure about not touching sequence where both skaters are doing “mirror“ steps – it looks interesting in both H&B and W&P’s programs, but even here I would prefer more “dance“ and less “pair cathegory“ choreography in any part of program.

    Music is very nice and I am glad that they didn’t use Prokofjev or Tchaikovski’s version of the story.

    What is big positive (and I guess that maybe it was one of main reasons why Krylova & Camerlengo chose this composer and this story) – Kaitlin and Jean-Luc don’t need to be adult and mature people skating to it. R & J’s story is much more about teenage kids and about love which is more crazy and fresh, not about mature people who show the depth of their souls. So in comparison with SD where maturity is needed (and they are loosing a lot thanks to it), FD is fitting them in terms of age and thanks to I would say still “juniorish“ limitations.

    They borrowed lift from Tessa & Scott (opening lift) and all other lifts with positions I saw performed by other couples, but they are performing it nicely.

    Twizzles from low speed, but with good synchro – why they got GOE - two times 0, once +1 and +2 twice?…while Madison & Evan were slower and didn’t had synchro, but got higher GOE?

    Expression of the program is not strong yet. Something is missing for me. I feel like they are both skating the choreography with the best effort they have, but they are not reacting to each other, they don’t express tender feelings to each other throught their movements. It is like they would be skating beside each other with glass wall between them, but they need to look like they are skating for each other instead.

  2. #917
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    Nov 2006
    Nella Zhiganshina & Alexander Gazsi’s FD:

    The couple is known for crazy ideas….so trying to expect anything else would be “crazy“.

    The couple is problematic to judge in this term….they had some nice moments and then suddenly they execute something what proves that they have a serious lack of basic technique.

    I liked that they had some really nice edges in diagonal step sequence and in the first part of circular step sequence.

    What I mind is their permanent (probably whole career lasting) out of synchro. I am able to understand that our new couples will look for each other during dance, but Nella & Alex skate together since 2005.

    Their twizzles are always a fight, especially for Alex, but what is one of their basic problems is the lack of fluency in every twizzles they have. Instead of fluent move, there is almost always a feeling that their twizzles are a number of three turns done one after the another with jumping knee action. That is a mistake. Continuous move in Twizzles is essential and this couple is fighting with this for years and it is still not good.

    The spacing in Twizzles between partners is more than two arm length (I would say almost four arm length) which means reduction about one level.

    Their transitions are easy to describe – during all “between the elements“ parts – there were only many and many cross-overs, jumps, few three turns, many and many two-footed skating or two-footed standing on one place and one mohawk by Nella, open holds.…they got 6,25 for Transitions – this is too high for such transitions.

    Their upper body is bent forward for most of time, they have big spacing between each other (also in step sequences). Thanks to new changements in rules where a couple must skate close to each other 50% of time to get Performance/Execution mark from 4 to 4,75 points…Nella & Alex shouldn’t get higher that (in reality they got 8,17 points).

    Overall the couple is not technically improving, I would say that they are even slightly worse than they were in 2011/12 season. I don’t think that 7,58 point for Skating Skills should be represented by these skills…

    The dance itself:
    Why Lambiel copied the throw jump from I&K’s Swan Lake?

    Why Swan Lake? Just one season after Swan Lake won Olympic Bronze medal…it only leads to a straight comparison with I&K and especially comparison in gliding and skating skills is killing for Nella & Alex. So why?

    While last season’s FD was fitting the couple well, I don’t take this years dance like a good choice yet. Not only because it is Swan Lake, but also because I think that Nella & Alex are too stiff skaters to be able to express such techno version of the music – just compare with Takahashi’s both steps sequences, how can he move with his body to Hip-Hop version of the Swan Lake -
    - for this kind of music I think it is quite important to move your whole body – it is something what Nella & Alex are not doing at all.

    I agree with the couple that Ice Dance cathegory needs to be entertaining to be loved by fans more. I see that the couple is trying to create something what will take public attention and this is the most important thing for them. OK. Great to have such couple in the dancing field. But we have couples who are trying not only to come with original idea, but they also try to push themselves into better technique and more demanding programs.

    For example Hurtado & Diaz – their Picasso was a great dance – more difficult than Nella & Alex’s programs and it had a soul, it was a little piece of art and kids were able to express the depth of the music – Nella & Alex skating their crazy programs were never so impressive in such difficult and deep music.

    Just for comparison Nella & Alex got 8,17 points for Choreography and 7,50 points for Interpretentation of their Swan at Nebelhorn Trophy here….while H&D’s Picasso got 6,68 points for Choreography and 6,82 for Interpretation at World Champs.

  3. #918
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    sisinka, Thank you, thank you, thank you! You have pointed out many of the issues that I have never had the energy to write about or, have been too exasperated to write about. I know that our judges have been educated and have been in the sport long enough to be able to pick out the qualities and inadequacies of the team and of each team member. It would make it so much more interesting for spectators and more encouraging for the skaters if the teams were actually marked in a way that reflected what was shown on the ice. Great choreo , poor skills , mark it that way. Superb skaters but lack of transitions, mark it that way. Please!

  4. #919
    Wicked Yankee Girl dorispulaski's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Staring at the ocean and smiling.
    sisinka, I know you detest Chock & Bates; however it would be utterly ridiculous to have a male dancer emulate a Gene Kelly role with extended ballet leg stylings. Here's how Kelly dances in American in Paris:

    Kelly tap dances. He has a loose-legged, round-shouldered style. His legs are always flexed at the knee. And unlike many ballet dancers, he is always spot-on the beat.

    The movie's choreographer, Kelly himself, had Caron quite often use balletic leg extension and toe point to express the difference between Caron's French character and Kelly's American character.

    In the long dance they do together:

    Ice dance is not ballet in any case. You can do a ballet program in ice dance, but you can also do many other types of dances. The origin of ice dance as a sport is in the ballroom.

    An American in Paris is not a ballet, it is a modern dance piece with references to both tap and ballet genres.
    So neither should any ice dance program to American in Paris be required to be a pure ballet or to look like one.

    Another thing- Tessa & Scot and H&B both did cantilever curved lifts last year.. Jean Luc has used.that type of.lift since 2009 with his previous partner. other teams have used it too, in fact, I am fairly sure W&P have used it too.
    H&B fall 2013 Amelie FD had it
    Last edited by dorispulaski; Yesterday at 08:10 PM.

  5. #920
    Custom Title humbaba's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Quote Originally Posted by sisinka View Post
    Kaitlin Hawayek & Jean-Luc Baker’s FD:

    if they will work hard I believe that in future THIS will be the couple who can take close to technical abilities of top Russians dancers (B&S, I&Z&K&S).
    I'm curious. Why hold up the Russian teams as the standard against which others should be measured? I&Z and S&K are unknown quantities at this time and the results of B&S have been respectable, but not outstanding.

  6. #921
    Rinkside viennaskater's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2014
    Vienna, Austria
    Quote Originally Posted by Mirunna View Post
    Good height on her 3S, maybe she can get other triples too;
    But dear God, that costume!! It's like the back of it was made to look that way on purpose!
    Quite honestly, I am surprised that costume was allowed!

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