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Thread: 55th ISU Congress: Who voted "For" and "Against" anonymous judging

  1. #76
    Yulia and Ruslena team forever! Alba's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bara1968 View Post
    I am all against anonimous judging, and deeply dissappointed at KSF's decision. But it is indeed presumptuous to assume that Korean fed will take their vengence by bribing all the judges to prevent Russians to win etc. , using anonymous judging. why, really why will they do that with their own money?
    I do agree with you and don't believe for a second that will happen.
    The funny thing though is that the majority of people who seems to think that are the ones who are Kim's fans, or Korean fans (if I may use that term), but maybe they are just hoping - more than actually believing - for something like that to happen.

  2. #77
    Yuna's Ice Rink cooper's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bara1968 View Post
    It's becoming hilarious to see some of you guys going too far and conveniently assuming that Korean fed is a villan, and treating them as if somehow they already committed to an evil action even though KSF has not done anything harm to other fed/skaters. In gpf, 4cc in Korea, winners were Japanese, even when Yuna was a heavy favorite. As far as I know, there has been ZERO scandal in Korean soil. And Pyoungchang is in 4 years. NOTHING happened yet.

    I am all against anonimous judging, and deeply dissappointed at KSF's decision. But it is indeed presumptuous to assume that Korean fed will take their vengence by bribing all the judges to prevent Russians to win etc. , using anonymous judging. why, really why will they do that with their own money?

    One thing I can say for sure is that, Pyoungchang will be covered by Yuna Kim(her interviews, images etc) and all of koreans will treat her as a double gold medalist (based on their reaction and news article, and in my heart she is the double gold medalist) whether you like it or not. That may be their own way of revenge.
    it is indeed hilarious.. and not to mention they're giving korean skating union too much credit.. as if they can somehow managed to orchestrate a plan on their own.. they couldn't even put a concrete complaint for crying out loud!

    and they have no money to bribe those judges..and if they have the money.. they will rather spend that money to speed skating and short track..

  3. #78
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    It must be said that what makes the ISU situation so scary is that its corrupt but its not dysfunctional. Its very much a functional sporting association with lots of rules and regulations but its decisions are poor and rooted in an atmosphere of political stasis, corruption and fear of the 'wrath' of Cinquanta (through sanctions). The ISU (not necessarily each country's federation but the official isu delegation and officials) in its current state only cares about themselves and not the sports, each national federation, coaches and skaters it looks after.

    This vote shows that some people are scared of change.

  4. #79
    Size 7 Knife Boots Sam-Skwantch's Avatar
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    It's becoming hilarious to see some of you guys going too far and conveniently assuming that Korean fed is a villan, and treating them as if somehow they already committed to an evil action even though KSF has not done anything harm to other fed/skaters.
    Nobody actually thinks KSU is capable of doing anything like cheating and I doubt they even have much influence even with the 2018 games. The good thing is we know its possible for a skater to rise above all this silliness and get results simply thru great skating. We saw Yuna do it. Imagine there are others with the ability to follow her footsteps like So Youn Park. She is learning from a master in how to operate within a corrupt/useless fed.

    "You may say I'm dreamer but I'm not the only one"

  5. #80
    Yulia and Ruslena team forever! Alba's Avatar
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    Is there anyone who knows how many from the countries who voted yes and those who voted no have a separate federation for FS?

  6. #81
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    Without imposing personal assumption of individual fed's agenda and looking at the over all pattern of voting, one may deduce or guess at the motives more objectively.

    Why did feds with strong skaters and medal contenders vote for the abolition of anonymous judging? It may be because they want more open, fairer, and less controversial judging which would be good for the sport or at least appeasing the fans, or they may want to appear to do so.

    Why did feds with few skaters and/or little chance of medaling in international competitions vote against abolishing anonymous judging? Well, judging is where they are at equal status with the "powerful" feds so that's where they hold their political cards. So what are they playing for? Anonymous judging gives them deal making opportunities with their powerful counterparts who can then politick covertly while overtly oppose anonymous judging.

    The voting on the abolition itself might just have been such a deal.

  7. #82
    Custom Title Mathman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alba View Post
    Is there anyone who knows how many from the countries who voted yes and those who voted no have a separate federation for FS?
    Here is a tweet from someone who is at the Congress. (Click on the pictures, then use right and left arrows to see the complete lists.) If it says "Figure" after the country, this is the figure skating federation separately. The others have a combined figure and speed skating federation.

    https://twitter.com/_david_molina/st...30320022876161

  8. #83
    Yulia and Ruslena team forever! Alba's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mathman View Post
    Here is a tweet from someone who is at the Congress. (Click on the pictures, then use right and left arrows to see the complete lists.) If it says "Figure" after the country, this is the figure skating federation separately. The others have a combined figure and speed skating federation.

    https://twitter.com/_david_molina/st...30320022876161
    Thank you Math.
    So, 11 countries ho voted no have FS fed and 14 who voted yes.


    p.s. If I'm not mistaken, countries who have a combined Fed had two votes actually right?

  9. #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by SkateFiguring View Post
    Without imposing personal assumption of individual fed's agenda and looking at the over all pattern of voting, one may deduce or guess at the motives more objectively.

    Why did feds with strong skaters and medal contenders vote for the abolition of anonymous judging? It may be because they want more open, fairer, and less controversial judging which would be good for the sport or at least appeasing the fans, or they may want to appear to do so.

    Why did feds with few skaters and/or little chance of medaling in international competitions vote against abolishing anonymous judging? Well, judging is where they are at equal status with the "powerful" feds so that's where they hold their political cards. So what are they playing for? Anonymous judging gives them deal making opportunities with their powerful counterparts who can then politick covertly while overtly oppose anonymous judging.

    The voting on the abolition itself might just have been such a deal.
    I'm afraid it's not just that. Feds that have top skaters can afford to get them overscored openly. It wouldn't look like a huge violation of sport; rather like a matter of taste. Overscoring a medium or weak skater would look like a massive blunder or incompetence though. That should better remain anonimous

  10. #85
    Size 7 Knife Boots Sam-Skwantch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Anna K. View Post
    I'm afraid it's not just that. Feds that have top skaters can afford to get them overscored openly. It wouldn't look like a huge violation of sport; rather like a matter of taste. Overscoring a medium or weak skater would look like a massive blunder or incompetence though. That should better remain anonimous
    Does skating for a stronger federation with a much deeper field not sort of politic itself though? Getting fourth at Russian/Us/Japan Nationals will kind of sell itself to the judges vs second place and maybe even first in smaller Feds. Until we have robot judges and boot sensors....ugh...human nature will always show face. Judges have expectations and will always carry preconcieved notions of skaters if even to the smallest degree. This can actually work against a skater too. A bit of a double edged sword.

  11. #86
    Yulia and Ruslena team forever! Alba's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Anna K. View Post
    I'm afraid it's not just that. Feds that have top skaters can afford to get them overscored openly. It wouldn't look like a huge violation of sport; rather like a matter of taste. Overscoring a medium or weak skater would look like a massive blunder or incompetence though. That should better remain anonimous
    I agree with you on this, but SkateFiguring does have a good point as well.
    Italians for example have always used their scores in favor of big countries. The alliance was always based also on how many competitive skaters Italy had and where.
    For example: Italy often was in favor of Russia in Ice Dance (during the 90s) because the Russians were stronger and the Italian couple was a direct competitor with the NA or the French couple not with the Russians.
    In the last 4 years this has changed. The Russians were their direct competitors so the favor shifted towards NA, the rumors are towards USA in specific.

  12. #87
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    Maybe it was already pointed out but I just realized Susanna Rahkamo basically voted NO.

    I'm in shock. She is IMO one of the classiest people from the figure skating world and one of the few I would 100% trust.

    I understand the Finnish association maybe sent a representative but either way I can't imagine she wouldn't have been sure to make her opinion clear on this topic. Whatever the reason is... I don't think I want to know.

  13. #88
    Yulia and Ruslena team forever! Alba's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by machin View Post
    Maybe it was already pointed out but I just realized Susanna Rahkamo basically voted NO.

    I'm in shock. She is IMO one of the classiest people from the figure skating world and one of the few I would 100% trust.
    Maybe some countries/people do feel safer from pressure with anonymous judging. We can't exclude that some of these people really do feel and believe that anonymity gives them integrity.

  14. #89
    Gadfly and Bon Vivant Mafke's Avatar
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    My takeaway is that the ISU is unsaveable (unreformable) and the quicker it dies the horrible death it deserves the better. It's taking FS back to the days of the 1930s where no one cared about it anymore than speed skating (which is probably the plan if there is one).

  15. #90
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alba View Post
    Maybe some countries/people do feel safer from pressure with anonymous judging. We can't exclude that some of these people really do feel and believe that anonymity gives them integrity.
    Both anonymity and non-anonymity are two edged swords that can be used for integrity or for corruption.

    Throwing out the highest and the lowest marks does eliminate the extreme biases.

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