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Thread: 55th ISU Congress: Who voted "For" and "Against" anonymous judging

  1. #91
    Celebrating the Excellence of #VirtueMoir golden411's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alba View Post
    What was the proposal about the Reverse order draw that did not pass?
    Quote Originally Posted by GF2445 View Post
    The motion about reverse order also failed to pass.

    Something that did pass was that the program components for dance are set to increase.
    Were excerpts from the ISU's "key decisions" document already posted on GS?
    (I've added emphases below corresponding to the posts above. BTW, interesting that the doc makes a reference to "in case the IOC accepts" synchro.)

    13 Jun 2014 - Dublin, Ireland

    The International Skating Union’s 55th Ordinary Congress concluded on June 13 2014 in Dublin (IRL). Over 220 Delegates from 79 ISU Member federations were present to vote on over 450 proposals. ... For the first time in ISU history a Forum was held to provide a platform to the ISU Members to discuss a number of topics including the future of the ISU and the upcoming 2016 elections.

    It was announced that the 56th Ordinary Congress will be held in Dubrovnik (CRO) in June 2016.

    Key decisions by the Congress:

    Constitution and General Regulations

    Following the 2012 Congress to discontinue the Sports Directorate, Congress voted to adjust and better outline the ISU Bodies, Office Holders and Coordinators.

    Provisions have been added to the ISU Constitution and General Regulations in case the IOC accepts Synchronized Skating into the Olympic Program.

    A proposal to call the third placed Competitors to the podium followed by the second then first was rejected.

    Although there were a number of proposals to either change or remove the age limit of ISU Office Holders and Officials, the Congress rejected all proposals in favor to keep the current age limit.

    The minimum requirement for Members activities are now better defined and Provisional ISU membership is open to countries not having an operating ice rink under the condition that the Council may apply special conditions to those Members.


    Single & Pair Skating and Ice Dance

    The Single & Pair Skating and Ice Dance Technical Committees submitted a proposal to have the same time requirements for the Free Skating/Dance across all disciplines, 4 minutes for Ladies, Men, Pairs and Ice Dance and 3 ½ minutes for the Junior skaters. This proposal was rejected by Congress.
    The proposal for the Free Skating/Dance to be skated in reverse skating order to the skaters’ preceding segment result of the competition, with the best placed Competitor skating last was also rejected along with the removal of judges’ anonymity.

    Competitors from the Host Member of the Olympic Winter Games who did not qualify through the normal qualification process will still be able to participate as long as they have achieved the required minimum Total Technical Score.

    The Ice Dance Program Component will be multiplied by a higher factor as of season 2014/15.

    http://www.isu.org/en/news-and-event...inary-congress

  2. #92
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    A higher factor for PCS in Ice Dance? What, were the judges upset that popular teams were losing because of major errors and the judges were unable to inflate their PCS significantly enough to save them?

    That is a horrendous decision. Ice Dance will once again become a popularity contest where it doesn't matter how teams skate technically or in terms of difficulty, when the judges will keep everyone nice and separated by PCS tiers.

  3. #93
    EZETTIE LATUASV IVAKMHA CaroLiza_fan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by golden411 View Post
    A proposal to call the third placed Competitors to the podium followed by the second then first was rejected.
    Well, I always thought it should be done 3rd-2nd-1st, like in all other sports. But then Becki explained to me that it was done 1st-2nd-3rd because it would be difficult for the winner to get past the others when wearing skates. So, for skating, it makes more sense doing it 1st-2nd-3rd. (See this post)

    Quote Originally Posted by golden411 View Post
    Although there were a number of proposals to either change or remove the age limit of ISU Office Holders and Officials, the Congress rejected all proposals in favor to keep the current age limit.
    I've already made my feelings about age limits clear in a thread I started, which unfortunately only got a single, narky reply. (See http://www.goldenskate.com/forum/showthread.php?50603 )

    Quote Originally Posted by golden411 View Post
    The Single & Pair Skating and Ice Dance Technical Committees submitted a proposal to have the same time requirements for the Free Skating/Dance across all disciplines, 4 minutes for Ladies, Men, Pairs and Ice Dance and 3 ½ minutes for the Junior skaters. This proposal was rejected by Congress.
    Personally, I've never understood why the categories had different lengths of programmes. But, I didn't like the proposed times. Rather than reducing the lengths, the other categories should have been increased to the same as the Men's.

    Quote Originally Posted by golden411 View Post
    The proposal for the Free Skating/Dance to be skated in reverse skating order to the skaters’ preceding segment result of the competition, with the best placed Competitor skating last was also rejected along with the removal of judges’ anonymity.
    As for the start order for the FS being in reverse order of the results of the SP, I have been saying that for years! (Here is the last post I made about it, during the Ladies FS in Sochi).

    WHY, WHY, WHY, DID THEY REJECT THAT???!!!

    They do it like that in ski jumping, and it makes the competition so much easier to follow. And it builds up the drama towards the end. Oh, and it gives us one less reason to come up with conspiracy theories...

    Quote Originally Posted by golden411 View Post
    Competitors from the Host Member of the Olympic Winter Games who did not qualify through the normal qualification process will still be able to participate as long as they have achieved the required minimum Total Technical Score.
    Well, that is what happens in most sports, so I guess it's a good thing that Figure Skating is following suit. Hey, the fans always like to cheer on a local!

    Those are just my thoughts.

    CaroLiza_fan

  4. #94
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    Quote Originally Posted by CanadianSkaterGuy View Post
    A higher factor for PCS in Ice Dance? What, were the judges upset that popular teams were losing because of major errors and the judges were unable to inflate their PCS significantly enough to save them?

    That is a horrendous decision. Ice Dance will once again become a popularity contest where it doesn't matter how teams skate technically or in terms of difficulty, when the judges will keep everyone nice and separated by PCS tiers.
    Ugh, I really hate this, and I hate the new rules cutting back on lifts and adding that extra choreo spin.

    And I'm super disappointed anonymous judging is here to stay, especially considering how many of the largest federations were in favor of getting rid of it. And a majority at that. Boo.

    I also wish they had standardized the length of the long programs across the disciplines. I don't really see the point of the men having an extra thirty seconds.

  5. #95
    Kisdom Title TMC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by machin View Post
    Maybe it was already pointed out but I just realized Susanna Rahkamo basically voted NO.

    I'm in shock. She is IMO one of the classiest people from the figure skating world and one of the few I would 100% trust.

    I understand the Finnish association maybe sent a representative but either way I can't imagine she wouldn't have been sure to make her opinion clear on this topic. Whatever the reason is... I don't think I want to know.
    Finland bid for - and got - the 2017 worlds. I imagine that was at least partly behind this decision this time.

  6. #96
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    Quote Originally Posted by TMC View Post
    Finland bid for - and got - the 2017 worlds. I imagine that was at least partly behind this decision this time.
    Yes but Sweden too... I don't think it's the main reason.

    Synchro at the Games would be a safer bet IMO. Still I don't understand how Finland could possibly vote against it.

    This make me a bit sad but honestly, since a year or two I stopped taking this kind of things at heart because it never stop and anyway figure skating is prone to "scandals" (well, just Finland vote really shocked me because of who is the head of their association) because a lot of people can feel very differently toward what is performed on the ice. The results are meaningless most of the times and I do not care about them anymore. They'll do what they want in the end anyway, just watch the skating.

  7. #97
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    Quote Originally Posted by machin View Post
    Maybe it was already pointed out but I just realized Susanna Rahkamo basically voted NO.

    I'm in shock. She is IMO one of the classiest people from the figure skating world and one of the few I would 100% trust.

    I understand the Finnish association maybe sent a representative but either way I can't imagine she wouldn't have been sure to make her opinion clear on this topic. Whatever the reason is... I don't think I want to know.
    From what I heard Finland sent a delegation of 5 people to Dublin, including Rahkamo and several Finnish ISU judges. I got the impression that it was not Rahkamo's decision alone. I know that some Finnish judges are in favour of the anonymous judging system, saying that abolishing it would not solve the issue of transparency and openness but would instead bring more controversy, external pressure etc.

  8. #98
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sara View Post
    From what I heard Finland sent a delegation of 5 people to Dublin, including Rahkamo and several Finnish ISU judges. I got the impression that it was not Rahkamo's decision alone. I know that some Finnish judges are against of getting rid of anonymous judging, saying that would not resolve the issue of transparency and openness but would bring more controversy, external pressure etc.

    Where they say the external pressure is coming from and why can't it be dealt with fair and square?

  9. #99
    Size 7 Knife Boots Sam-Skwantch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Anna K. View Post
    Where they say the external pressure is coming from and why can't it be dealt with fair and square?
    The original concept of anonymous judging was designed to allow judges to have independent thought free of expectations, or pressure, from their own federations and pressure from others.

  10. #100
    Gadfly and Bon Vivant Mafke's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sam-Skwantch View Post
    The original concept of anonymous judging was designed to allow judges to have independent thought free of expectations, or pressure, from their own federations and pressure or bribes from others.
    No. The original concept was designed to make it impossible to uncover cheating.

    The talking point about pressure only makes sense if you assume they don't want to cheat.

  11. #101
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sam-Skwantch View Post
    The original concept of anonymous judging was designed to allow judges to have independent thought free of expectations, or pressure, from their own federations and pressure from others.
    So, is this concept based on assumption that judges are honest and federations are not?

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    About the Finnish NO for anonymous judging.

    They got the pre-Olympic Worldchampionships in 2017.
    Could it be any coincidence....................................... ................????

  13. #103
    Size 7 Knife Boots Sam-Skwantch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Anna K. View Post
    So, is this concept based on assumption that judges are honest and federations are not?
    Nothing is ever that cut and dry in figure skating.

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    Quote Originally Posted by bigdeal View Post
    About the Finnish NO for anonymous judging.

    They got the pre-Olympic Worldchampionships in 2017.
    Could it be any coincidence....................................... ................????
    Well I thought the same first but now that I have more information I don't think the 2017 worlds bid has anything to do with the way Finland voted.

  15. #105
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sam-Skwantch View Post
    Nothing is ever that cut and dry in figure skating.
    Judging should be.
    If federations are the problem, then they should face sanctions instead of making their interaction with judges untrackable for the public and officials.

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