Medal Contenders (Favorites) For 2018 PyeonChang Olympics

Meoima · Jun 14, 2014

chalk5 said:
@Meioma, I do agree with the South Koreans about Tarasova. There is something about there that I don't like. I don't know if that' just how it is (old styled, tough love), but she really didn't seem to like Yuna, although she respected him, or maybe it was just Orser. There is something about her that I just quite cannot get to like her.

I have some weird feelings about Tarasova, too. :slink:

I respect her for her achievements, and she does have some good choreography for her students. But there is something about her that I couldn't like.
Do you know Yubaba the witch from Spirited Away? Tarasova reminds me of that character.

Anyways Tarasova doesn't seem to like Orser in particular and Canadians in general. She doesn't like PChan.
All of Orser' students are surely not liked by her, since they are her students' rivals. Believe me, Tarasova doesn't like Yuna and Yuzuru even just a bit. :slink:

maybe she just doesn't like Orser' style. :laugh:

chalk5 · Jun 14, 2014

O MY GOD. I just looked it up , and you nailed on the head. I feel like she needs to retire and have other people get a chance. She surely has done excellent work, I just hope that her character matches it up.

Sam-Skwantch · Jun 15, 2014

Sandpiper said:
That's the thing. People who are figure skating fans are generally appreciative of all skaters (doesn't mean they like all skaters or agree with all results, but they usually at least respect them as athletes).

There are many skaters who can give my favorite medal contender a run for her money. To me they can only make her better in the long run and I appreciate those skaters more for it. In turn they just wind up growing on me . I can honestly say I like just about all skaters and have never rooted against one. In fact just the opposite May in fact be true.

Meoima · Jun 15, 2014

chalk5 said:
O MY GOD. I just looked it up , and you nailed on the head. I feel like she needs to retire and have other people get a chance. She surely has done excellent work, I just hope that her character matches it up.

Have you seen this: http://rinkwatchers.tumblr.com/post/77859786792/tatiana-tarasova-reminds-me-of-yubaba-so-much
Epic comparison! :popcorn:

Tarasova indeed is very good at polishing skaters who were developed by other coaches. But for sure I hope she will retire soon. :disapp:
That's why I like Mishin more, because he teaches all his boys from young, give them best jumping technique until they leave him for Tarasova.

chalk5 · Jun 15, 2014

can't get enough. yeah but that's also what I'm talking about. She seems mean, but oddly loving. She is almost like a scary grandma to everyone.

Jewels · Jun 15, 2014

Meoima said:
Have you seen this: http://rinkwatchers.tumblr.com/post/77859786792/tatiana-tarasova-reminds-me-of-yubaba-so-much
Epic comparison!
Tarasova indeed is very good at polishing skaters who were developed by other coaches. But for sure I hope she will retire soon. :disapp:
That's why I like Mishin more, because he teaches all his boys from young, give them best jumping technique until they leave him for Tarasova.

How about the witch from Howl's moving castle? haha

Anyway, about Pyeongchang.... if Korea doesn't have a serious contender until then, I doubt there will be much interest in figure skating. So I say no favoritisms unless Adelina's going for the gold again or KSU has any other ideas. That's for the ladies single, and for the men, pair, ice dancing...... I don't think anybody in Korea would be desperate for a certain skater to win. I mean, people aside from skating fans barely know which skaters are good let alone the rules. So nothing overly-outrageous will happen IMO.

WeakAnkles · Jun 15, 2014

CanadianSkaterGuy said:
That's my point. A skater's rise can be meteoric. Hanyu and Kovtun are two examples of that under this system. Even Brown was winning GP medals without any quad attempts. Nguyen could certainly contend for GP medals over the next few years, and with a bit of luck and good coaching from Orser he could be on the 2018 podium.

But the whole point of COP is that it tried to move skating out of a jumping bean contest by quantifying ALL technical aspects. It's now a point game. It doesn't matter HOW you gain the points. Jason and his coaches played the game smartly by accumulating as much points as possible from what he was able to do (and do well).

Quality over quantity. I think it's one reason why Jason made such a huge splash last season. Yes, pushing the technical envelope can be exciting, but it can also lead to splatfests (Sochi Olympics, anyone?). There are a good many times when I would rather see a slightly less demanding but clean technical program than one or two huge tricks wrapped up in a mediocre program.

Sam-Skwantch · Jun 15, 2014

WeakAnkles said:
But the whole point of COP is that it tried to move skating out of a jumping bean contest by quantifying ALL technical aspects. It's now a point game. It doesn't matter HOW you gain the points. Jason and his coaches played the game smartly by accumulating as much points as possible from what he was able to do (and do well).

Quality over quantity. I think it's one reason why Jason made such a huge splash last season. Yes, pushing the technical envelope can be exciting, but it can also lead to splatfests (Sochi Olympics, anyone?). There are a good many times when I would rather see a slightly less demanding but clean technical program than one or two huge tricks wrapped up in a mediocre program.

The best part about COP is ,when scored correctly, any skater can identify where they score well and where they don't. Then it's just a simple choice of how to attack the next event or season. Build on strengths and or work on weaknesses. Before it was not so apparent. Gkelly made a great point that once we evolve into judges that never knew 6.0 is when the whole system will begin to make the most sensse and be more effective. We still are maybe in the transition years.

I agree about seeing a more crisp and simple program skated cleanly with less emphasis on jam packing a program. Not sure about the program being mediocre because I don't think that is necassary but I'd love to see a bonus for holding out a jump or spiral like move exceptionally well. Oh that deep curved edge. :yes:

HanDomi · Jun 15, 2014

Honestly I can't get this complaining about splatfest. It was always part of the game. No one was always clean. Even Yagudin and Plushenko had their moments of bombing

Skaters are pushing technical elements because they can do that. Someone ho is doing more simply program is doing more simplier program because he can't do what other guys can. It is what competition is all about. Even the simpliest program can turn to a bombing if it is not your night

Ophelia · Jun 15, 2014

Sam-Skwantch said:
You should probably call out Chalk5 for the same thing.

Whoops, didn't catch that. Don't necessarily agree that Koreans are all classy and Russians aren't. Russians are much more direct in their opinions though.

Jammers · Jun 15, 2014

Trying to figure out what Ladies will be the favorites in 2018 is sheer lunacy. Betting on any of these Russian girls under 16 is almost impossible as some of them will lose their jumps and fade away.

WeakAnkles · Jun 15, 2014

HanDomi said:
Honestly I can't get this complaining about splatfest. It was always part of the game. No one was always clean. Even Yagudin and Plushenko had their moments of bombing Skaters are pushing technical elements because they can do that. Someone ho is doing more simply program is doing more simplier program because he can't do what other guys can. It is what competition is all about. Even the simpliest program can turn to a bombing if it is not your night

Actually if you go back and look at previous Olympics, there have been two major splatfests: Ladies at Albertville, and Men at Sochi (at least that I can remember off the top of my head at the moment). And it's not simply a matter of a certain skater having an off night; in both cases, there were an uncommon number of falls, bobbles etc. And I do believe that it directly related to pushing the envelope technically. It may be what you might call a "quad generational" problem--usually by the next quad the skaters have all upped their games technically (in large part because the next generation grows up in a training environment where what had been "the pushed envelope" becomes what one might call "the new normal").

Of course it is impossible to predict who will stand on the Olympic podium at the beginning of a new quad. But I'm going to say I expect Hawayek and Baker to be very much in the mix in Ice Dancing, particularly because, given the new rules, it appears there is a concerted effort to temper the more acrobatic/athletic and push more old fashioned dance. And that plays right into Hawayek and Baker's style. Of course I also expect a Russian team (or three or four) to be in the mix as well, but it's hard to say which teams will emerge as medal threats given the musical chairs of the last few months. We shall see.

CanadianSkaterGuy · Jun 15, 2014

WeakAnkles said:
But the whole point of COP is that it tried to move skating out of a jumping bean contest by quantifying ALL technical aspects. It's now a point game. It doesn't matter HOW you gain the points. Jason and his coaches played the game smartly by accumulating as much points as possible from what he was able to do (and do well).

Quality over quantity. I think it's one reason why Jason made such a huge splash last season. Yes, pushing the technical envelope can be exciting, but it can also lead to splatfests (Sochi Olympics, anyone?). There are a good many times when I would rather see a slightly less demanding but clean technical program than one or two huge tricks wrapped up in a mediocre program.

Jason is a wonderfully special case. It's rare these days that a junior breaks into the world ranks so quickly without at least attempting a quad. He's one of the few skaters who I don't really care if he does the highest difficulty because the rest of his skating is just so amazing to watch. I REALLY hope he gets a consistent quad because I think he's got the potential to be amazing... he'll likely be a favourite to win 2018 if he does get a consistent quad, but it's a bit up in the air (no pun intended) as to whether or not he will.

CanadianSkaterGuy · Jun 15, 2014

HanDomi said:
Honestly I can't get this complaining about splatfest. It was always part of the game. No one was always clean. Even Yagudin and Plushenko had their moments of bombing Skaters are pushing technical elements because they can do that. Someone ho is doing more simply program is doing more simplier program because he can't do what other guys can. It is what competition is all about. Even the simpliest program can turn to a bombing if it is not your night

Agreed. It seems to some posters that in a perfect skating world nobody would be attempting quads or 3-3 and everyone would be doing pretty, pristine, perfect programs and then it comes down to the judges PCSing their favourites. That's not how the sport should be. It should be challenging and demanding, so that when a skater somehow completes a clean program in spite of ridiculous difficulty, it's more impressive than if they went clean by taking the easy street.

Coltrocks12 · Jun 15, 2014

I also don't get the obsessing about "splat fest" with PCS/CoP era like somehow there were no splat fests before. I remember plenty of competitions prior to the ending of the 6.0 era where there were splat fests where only the winner was clean. The 1998 Worlds comes to mind where Butyrskaya even falls doing an edge move. It seems like if one splats, most of them do and it's like a snowball rolling downhill. I don't think the system creates that, and I am not sure it can fix it. Just my $0.02:agree:

Meoima · Jun 15, 2014

Coltrocks12 said:
I also don't get the obsessing about "splat fest" with PCS/CoP era like somehow there were no splat fests before. I remember plenty of competitions prior to the ending of the 6.0 era where there were splat fests where only the winner was clean. The 1998 Worlds comes to mind where Butyrskaya even falls doing an edge move. It seems like if one splats, most of them do and it's like a snowball rolling downhill. I don't think the system creates that, and I am not sure it can fix it. Just my $0.02:agree:

Yes. And it's true that the organization at Sochi put more stress on all the skaters. The have to perform LP in the day right after SP. They should have one day off in between to prepare.

WeakAnkles · Jun 15, 2014

I don't think there's necessarily a relationship between HOW programs are judged--aka The Endless If Not Fruitless Debate Over Which Judging System Really Means The Death Of Not Only Figure Skating But Of All Good Things In The World As We Know Them, 6.0 Or COP*--and Olympic splatfests. I stand by what I said--at certain points someone, or a small group of someones, pushes the envelope technically, then everyone else tries to match his/her/their technical feats. Hence, an Olympic splatfest. Then technical complexity seems to level off for a while before the next bit of envelope pushing. But YMMV of course.

* What, me exaggerate in order to prove a point? Never!

Sam-Skwantch · Jun 15, 2014

I think the point isn't necessarily that a splat fest is caused by the 3-3 combos but instead by the cramming as much tech in as humanly possible with just minor semblance of emotion acting as fillers. It's not going to be as splatfesty if the skaters could breathe a bit more allowing them to focus on other things than landing every jump possible. Ultimately people want more artistic interpretation and not just a list of tricks to be checked off. As long as PCS is mostly Politicked Componet Scores I can't find another way to award artistry outside of my earlier point. Award a bonus of ~2pts for a limited number of elements (maybe even only one per program)that are held out exceptionally long and on a curved edge. I'm sure that wouldn't lead to any controversy :laugh:

Saying COP is the cause isn't way off base but I think no matter what skaters are going to go for the most points anyway...right. The human competive spirit will always be the driving force behind that. It's not like COP is the reason for cheating....that's always been present :slink:

Jammers · Jun 15, 2014

CanadianSkaterGuy said:
Jason is a wonderfully special case. It's rare these days that a junior breaks into the world ranks so quickly without at least attempting a quad. He's one of the few skaters who I don't really care if he does the highest difficulty because the rest of his skating is just so amazing to watch. I REALLY hope he gets a consistent quad because I think he's got the potential to be amazing... he'll likely be a favourite to win 2018 if he does get a consistent quad, but it's a bit up in the air (no pun intended) as to whether or not he will.

I really think if Josh Farris get his quad consistent he could end up a better skater then Jason. He is artistic also and has huge jumps including his triple axel. He just needs to go for it and be more aggressive. Sometimes he seems too passive.

Sandpiper · Jun 15, 2014

I don't want everyone to attempt zero quads and 3-3s (the horror!), but it doesn't make sense to me to reward falls so highly. Difficult elements should be rewarded when they're successful, not when they're failed. Of course there were falls in 6.0 too; it's a sport, and the men's field has always been a splatfest. But consider: Hanyu managed to sweep all the major titles this season despite falling in every competition.

I'm okay with him wanting the quad salchow, and he wants to keep going for it, then go for it! But when he fails the element, he should get deducted. He shouldn't be able to max out his point-earning potential by choreographing a fall. When he lands the 4S, that layout should earn him the most points. But when he doesn't, it shouldn't earn him more points than skating perfectly with two 4Ts (should be a PCS hit for falling too, but that obviously doesn't exist).

Difficult elements should be high risk and high reward. Not no reward, of course, because that stops the sport in its track. But not no risk either, because we just get a bunch of people "going for it" on difficult elements without really mastering them.

Medal Contenders (Favorites) For 2018 PyeonChang Olympics

Meoima

Match Penalty

chalk5

Match Penalty

Sam-Skwantch

“I solemnly swear I’m up to no good”

Meoima

Match Penalty

chalk5

Match Penalty

Jewels

WeakAnkles

Sam-Skwantch

“I solemnly swear I’m up to no good”

HanDomi

Ophelia

Jammers

WeakAnkles

CanadianSkaterGuy

CanadianSkaterGuy

Coltrocks12

Meoima

Match Penalty

WeakAnkles

Sam-Skwantch

“I solemnly swear I’m up to no good”

Jammers

Sandpiper

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