Spirals

[Piel]

Would someone please discuss the judging criteria for spirals? What makes Shizuka's a level three while Sasha's is a level two? What level is Michelle's? Any other info would be appreciated too. Thanks!

Piel

[Tonichelle]

change of edge, maybe? I really have no clue LOL

[nymkfan51]

I don't know for sure either, but I would certainly think that COE and extension are factors ... and how about spirals on both the left and right leg?

Plus ... maybe the length (or ice coverage) of the spiral?

[Joesitz]

I think skating fans get hung up on how high the extension of the free leg. I belive the spiral as it is with the arabesque in ballet is the stretch of the free leg. It is important that the knee is turned out and the toe is pointed. The free leg can be extended from any position of the body The levels of height of the free leg in ballet is dependent on the choreography. All ballet dancers have very flexible arabesques but they must be in line with the choreography,.

In competitive skating, i find that most skaters do not have the proper turned out knee and pointed toe. That is part of the basic position. How high the leg becomes important only if the basic position is met. By and large Ice Dancers have very appealing spirals but in line with their choreography. The difficulty with the spiral position is the edge on which it is held. The higher the free leg goes, the more difficult it is to hold the edge. A big plus for the top Ladies in present competition.

The more difficult spiral is the change edge spiral. Shizuka does have a change edge spiral which is pronounced. However, from my point of view, I do not see the knee turned out and the toe pointed. Sasha's free leg is quite stark and her change of edge from what I noticed does not seem to be changing edges but goes from inside to flat. When watching Michelle do the change edge spiral I see a clean cut change of edge and extremely high free leg that does not bobble during the execution.

What's a poor judge to do? I know what I would do but I'd rather not say because I like all three Ladies' skating and I don't want to judge the ability of all three on one element.

Joe

In Ladies Singles,

[Piel]

Thanks Joe. Do you know if Michelle's spiral is a level three like Shizukas's. If not, how is SA's better?

[Dustin]

Throughout the Grand Prix, I am only seeing Shizuka's spiral sequence as a level 1, never a level 3. Sasha's is level 2.

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[Piel]

IIRC a couple of times I have heard the announcers say that SA had increased the difficulty of her spirals to a level three.

[mzheng]

Originally posted by Piel
IIRC a couple of times I have heard the announcers say that SA had increased the difficulty of her spirals to a level three.

Yeah, it was only in GPF when SA added that COE spiral with two hands hold her free leg in Bielman position, but with a clear edge change, into her spiral sequence, that one was ranked as level three spiral.

[IDLERACER]

Click HERE to see a perfect spiral.

[VIETgrlTerifa]

Originally posted by Dustin
Throughout the Grand Prix, I am only seeing Shizuka's spiral sequence as a level 1, never a level 3. Sasha's is level 2.

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Dustin, at the GPF, Shizuka's spiral sequence in the LP was called Level 3.

[Joesitz]

Originally posted by Piel
Thanks Joe. Do you know if Michelle's spiral is a level three like Shizukas's. If not, how is SA's better?

Hi Piel - This topic will get a lot of play. I wonder if it gets more play than the Level of the Layback!

Anyhow, no one has mentioned what the lcriteria is for the levels of the spirals. I believe it has to do with the change edge spiral. If so, Shirzuka does change edges.

If it has to do with the free leg, Shizuka could use some more work, which I am sure Tarrazsova will be insistant that Shizuka's toe does not appear to be turned out.

Reiterating, if it's just the change edge then Shizuka is doing fine. Esthetically, I would like to see the toe pointing out.

Joe

[gkelly]

The descriptions of the levels are in ISU communication no. 1224 at www.isu.org.

[PrincessLeppard]

The reason Sasha can't get to level 3 is that to be level three there has to be almost no stroking between changing positions and if you watch Sasha, she's got LOTS of crossovers to maintain speed through her spiral.

Also, as Joe pointed out, her change of "edge" isn't really. She goes onto a flat, and she can't even hold that for more than a second. I know everyone raves about her extension, but if she dropped it a couple of inches, she might be able to do a true COE spiral. Just a thought.

Laura

[Piel]

Yeah, it was only in GPF when SA added that COE spiral with two hands hold her free leg in Bielman position, but with a clear edge change, into her spiral sequence, that one was ranked as level three spiral.

Thanks everyone. Now I am really confused though. The criteria for a level three spiral say "no use use of hands to hold the free leg". Is that OK in SA's case because of the difficulty of the Bielman position (which could not be assumed without holding the free leg)?

IMO the criteria leave the judges with way too much wriggle room to interpret as they will

gkelly, loved you in Brigadoon:D

Piel

[Joesitz]

Originally posted by Piel
IMO the criteria leave the judges with way too much wriggle room to interpret as they will
Piel

Piel -

That's exactly what the judges want. It's a subjective sport.

Joe