"Women" and "Girls" for season 2014-15 | Page 2 | Golden Skate

"Women" and "Girls" for season 2014-15

Joined
Aug 16, 2009
:laugh: Oh boy, now that'll be a volcano of a thread.

I'm actually okay with the concept of this thread (using the terms "woman" and "girls" in terms of style, rather than just age), but if you put it like that... well, just goes to show how different values are between the genders.

I think that in skating, there actually a valid difference between genders to consider because very young boys don't generally compete as seniors, whereas significantly younger girls (age fifteen or so) do. With males there's no special advantage for jumps in having an immature body: the strength that comes with age benefits them without any trade-offs. With female skaters, on the other hand, some young, physically immature girls have an advantage in terms of jumping ability, so if they can, they compete as early as possible.
 

Sandpiper

Record Breaker
Joined
Apr 16, 2014
^Oh, I totally agree. Just saying, a thread about "Boys and Men of Figure Skating" would probably get different--and more heated--reactions.
 

CanadianSkaterGuy

Record Breaker
Joined
Jan 25, 2013
The point is, it's not really worth a discussion, because it's going to come down to age.

I don't think it should be treated as girls are inferior to women and boys are inferior to men. You got to play to your strengths. And sometimes you're constrained by age - Radionova and Nguyen obviously won't be able to come across as a woman (no matter how many hooker outfits they put Radionova in) or man.
 

gkelly

Record Breaker
Joined
Jul 26, 2003
And most of the "girls" will transform into women, gradually or not so gradually. Some may retire before they get there.
 

CanadianSkaterGuy

Record Breaker
Joined
Jan 25, 2013
^Start the thread then. :popcorn:

(My point earlier was: It's usually considered "offensive" to call someone a boy rather than a man, so such a thread would be the ultimate flame bait. While many people aren't so happy with the women/girls division, it doesn't create the same visceral reaction as "Ooo, let's separate the boys from the men!" does. I think it does speak to how much maturity as valued for males vs. females).

But by all means, make the thread! If we're going to create these divisions, might as well as make it equal-opportunity. :biggrin:

Haha, I do remember Maria Butryskaya saying something to the effect of "I don't skate like little girl! I'm strong, mature woooman!"

I'm not creating the guy thread either, but it's interesting -- we cut the guys slack for skating like boys when they're teenagers (and they're technically less ambitious than senior men), but you constantly hear disparaging comments about how female jumping beans (who are technically more ambitious than senior ladies) lack refinement and maturity in their skating. Ridiculous double standard.
 

Alba

Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 26, 2014
I'm not creating the guy thread either, but it's interesting -- we cut the guys slack for skating like boys when they're teenagers (and they're technically less ambitious than senior men), but you constantly hear disparaging comments about how female jumping beans (who are technically more ambitious than senior ladies) lack refinement in their skating. Ridiculous double standard.

:thumbsup:
 

skatedreamer

Medalist
Joined
Feb 18, 2014
Country
United-States
Haha, I do remember Maria Butryskaya saying something to the effect of "I don't skate like little girl! I'm strong, mature woooman!"

I'm not creating the guy thread either, but it's interesting -- we cut the guys slack for skating like boys when they're teenagers (and they're technically less ambitious than senior men), but you constantly hear disparaging comments about how female jumping beans (who are technically more ambitious than senior ladies) lack refinement and maturity in their skating. Ridiculous double standard.

The female jumping beans also draw lots of "nyah, nyah" comments as their bodies mature and they're forced to re-learn their technique, which sometimes compromises their consistency. Double standard again.
 

YLFan

Match Penalty
Joined
Apr 3, 2014
With the mass retirements this year now its truly a young girls sport that it was evolving to. Every GP, worlds, euros, should be won by a girl 18 or younger.
 

CanadianSkaterGuy

Record Breaker
Joined
Jan 25, 2013
With the mass retirements this year now its truly a young girls sport that it was evolving to. Every GP, worlds, euros, should be won by a girl 18 or younger.

So you're saying Julia shouldn't win any GP/Euros/Worlds/Olympics in 2018 at the age of 19? ;)
 

CanadianSkaterGuy

Record Breaker
Joined
Jan 25, 2013
The female jumping beans also draw lots of "nyah, nyah" comments as their bodies mature and they're forced to re-learn their technique, which sometimes compromises their consistency. Double standard again.

Again, these comments are usually made by people who need to get a life. They're probably insecure about their own bodies so they can't help but jeer at skater's growing (heaven forbid!) as nature intended.
 

CanadianSkaterGuy

Record Breaker
Joined
Jan 25, 2013
And now more than ever the wins often happen at the expense of artistry, which I find disappointing. The art vs. sport conundrum -- again.

I'm okay with that. I don't think that a skater should be denied the ability to win a championship because they don't have the maturity/artistry (which is subjective anyways), but they should be denied wins if they don't attempt great difficulty or skate technically well.

It's unreal that a skater like Kostner/Asada/Kim has a 12-15 point advantage over other skaters, who could be reeling off 7-triple performances while they make major errors and still place behind the top ladies. If there's any good thing about Lipnitskaia's/Hanyu's skyrocketing PCS last season, at least it will force the other skaters to ensure they go for high difficulty (3-3 and quads), which might result in more errors overall in the field, but it will elevate the sport more than Arakawa's or Lysacek's play-it-safe Olympic wins.
 

Alba

Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 26, 2014
Every GP, worlds, euros, should be won by a girl 18 or younger.

I don't agree with the "should". If they deserve to win fine.



So you're saying Julia shouldn't win any GP/Euros/Worlds/Olympics in 2018 at the age of 19? ;)

:biggrin: :thumbsup:

I'm okay with that. I don't think that a skater should be denied the ability to win a championship because they don't have the maturity/artistry (which is subjective anyways), but they should be denied wins if they don't attempt great difficulty or skate technically well.

It's unreal that a skater like Kostner/Asada/Kim has a 12-15 point advantage over other skaters, who could be reeling off 7-triple performances while they make major errors and still place behind the top ladies. If there's any good thing about Lipnitskaia's/Hanyu's skyrocketing PCS last season, at least it will force the other skaters to ensure they go for high difficulty (3-3 and quads), which might result in more errors overall in the field, but it will elevate the sport more than Arakawa's or Lysacek's play-it-safe Olympic wins.

:clap:

The only thing I'm a bit concerned is that I don't want to push too much the juniors and risk injuries.
 

karne

in Emergency Backup Mode
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Joined
Jan 1, 2013
Country
Australia
With the mass retirements this year now its truly a young girls sport that it was evolving to. Every GP, worlds, euros, should be won by a girl 18 or younger.

Says you?

What about if Yuna came back and skated perfectly? Should she not win GPs, Worlds or anything since she's over 18? Or Mao? Or Gracie, since Gracie is now 18 and by extension of your logic, too old to win GPs Worlds etc. What about when Adelina turns 18? Or when Yulia turns 18? Or Ashley or Mirai or Carolina or basically the majority of international female skaters....?
 

YLFan

Match Penalty
Joined
Apr 3, 2014
I mean that no girl left over 18 is good enough to win a podium this year. And I don't see that changing in the next few seasons. Yuna and Mao aren't around and probably never will be again.
 

Mrs. P

Uno, Dos, twizzle!
Record Breaker
Joined
Dec 27, 2009
I mean that no girl left over 18 is good enough to win a podium this year. And I don't see that changing in the next few seasons. Yuna and Mao aren't around and probably never will be again.

Well I hope one of those "old maid" skaters will prove you wrong. :biggrin:
 
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