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Thread: "Women" and "Girls" for season 2014-15

  1. #61
    Rejoicing in the land of Kwan kwanatic's Avatar
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    I think the best jumpers right now are Adelina and Gracie.

    Adelina flutzes and some of her landings lack flow, but in terms of power and height, as well as transitions, she beats out Gracie IMO.

    Gracie lips her flips and I don't think her 2A is as reliable as it should be. Next to Adelina some of her jumps get better flow, though I do think Gracie has lost a lot of the speed and flow she used to have prior to moving to Frank. Her jumps aren't as explosive as they used to be but they are better controlled, which is something Adelina needs.

    Both ladies are natural jumpers, that's for sure. Adelina needs more control and flow; Gracie needs more flow and to dial the power back up a bit. Both struggled a bit in terms of consistency but sort of found their stride in the 2nd half of the season this year. Hopefully they'll continue that consistency next season.

    As for Julia, time will tell with her. She grew a lot last year (versus the 2012-2013 season) and managed to retain all of her jumps. At 15/16 years old, she probably has another growth spurt as well as some filling out to do. She may retain her jumps but even if she doesn't and the puberty monster claims another victim, she's accomplished an awful lot in her 2 or 3 years in the spotlight: JGP medals, JGPF finals champ, junior world champ, GP medals, GPF silver, Euro title, Olympic gold, world silver...she's done alright for herself.

  2. #62
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    I don't know why anyone would think Yulia is going to grow at 16 when she had her growth spurt. She might put on a pound or two but I don't see her body changing much in the next couple years.

    I think these concerns are for girls like Radionova who is likely still growing. Edmunds who might add weight to her big frame. Amber Glenn who is already kinda thick. Karen Chen who hasn't had her growth spurt. Etc

  3. #63
    Rejoicing in the land of Kwan kwanatic's Avatar
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    There's a chance Julia's body won't change much but there's a good chance it will. Most girls experience puberty from 11 until they're 17 or 18 years old. Julia did grow a lot last year but even at 16 she could grow another inch or so, and she may also fill out which is what I'd be the most concerned about right now. She's weathered the growth spurt but she's not out of the woods yet.

    Radionova won't be out of the woods for a while; Edmunds seems to have grown a lot but may grow more and will most likely fill out some; Amber Glenn's body does look "mature" already; and Karen is in the same boat as Elena Radionova.

    Until Julia is out of that growth stage of puberty, she's still a question mark. Her jumps aren't particularly springy or high; as of now she relies on her ability to rotate quickly when it comes to her jumps...she may lose that ability if she grows hips or gets bigger. Then again, she may not. That's the downside to women's figure skating: they are at the mercy of their bodies and there's never any way to tell exactly what will happen.

  4. #64
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    I have no strong opinions regarding Adelina vs. Gracie as jumpers, but I think Adelina has the momentum going for her right now. Gracie, on the other hand, seems to have hit a pretty big low on her Worlds LP. I hope she doesn't continue with the pageant act either. Adelina might not always be pretty to watch, but at least she's gritty and real. I am a bit worried about Yulia in terms of her jumps. She's a wonderful performer and I hope puberty doesn't take her. That being said, we should keep in mind that height isn't everything. The Kween had average-sized jumps, yet she was the top lady for a decade and won five (!) World titles.

    Quote Originally Posted by sk8in View Post
    If she can lose to Mao, she can definitely lose to Gold.
    What kind of logic is that? Mao is ten times the skater Gracie is. Frankly, this isn't so much insulting to Yulia, as it's insulting to Mao.

    Also, I'd appreciate it if you didn't call the Russians "brats."

  5. #65
    skating philosopher Mrs. P's Avatar
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    Having seen both Adelina and Gracie live, I would say that Adelina is miles better at projection and skating big. Even when she isn't perfect, her skating still grabs you.

    Gracie lacks that projection, IMO. Out of all the skaters that caught my attention at Nationals, she wasn't one of them, though her technical arsenal, speed and ice coverage is probably the best among the U.S. Ladies right now and probably the best among the World given recent retirements.

    RE: growth spurts/puberty. I stopped growing at around 15-16, but I definitely got curvier and my body continued to change for the next several years. I think that Julia is probably done growing height wise, but as others pointed out

  6. #66
    Yulia Lipnitskaya-san, Roshia! Rhodium's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sk8in View Post
    I see Radionova and Pogorilaya surpassing Julia easily. After seeing Pogo at worlds, I'm convinced she is the best of the Russian fs brats.
    Last season Gracie has beaten by all Russian "brats" (Lip, Rad, Sot, Pogo) at every competition where she met them (except Julia at Sochi individual comp.).

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sandpiper View Post
    I have no strong opinions regarding Adelina vs. Gracie as jumpers, but I think Adelina has the momentum going for her right now. Gracie, on the other hand, seems to have hit a pretty big low on her Worlds LP. I hope she doesn't continue with the pageant act either.
    Where as Adelina didn't even compete at Worlds, despite all the "rest" afforded her by OGM tours. It will be interesting to see if Adelina is able to harness her OGM glory by becoming an even better skater next season, but I won't hold my breath.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sandpiper View Post
    What kind of logic is that? Mao is ten times the skater Gracie is. Frankly, this isn't so much insulting to Yulia, as it's insulting to Mao.

    Also, I'd appreciate it if you didn't call the Russians "brats."
    Are you going to send the Kremlin after me? Ut oh, looks like Putin himself has descended into the figure skating forums. Mao was not consistent under CoP this past season because of her white whale/3A. Point is under the CoP system, Gracie is part of a new generation ready to milk it with new jump combos, and she's getting more consistent---where as Mao was fading.

  8. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by sk8in View Post
    Where as Adelina didn't even compete at Worlds, despite all the "rest" afforded her by OGM tours. It will be interesting to see if Adelina is able to harness her OGM glory by becoming an even better skater next season, but I won't hold my breath.
    I'm not sure why you're such a skeptic. After all, she was able to become an even better skater last season and peak at Euros and Olympics. I don't see how skating at Worlds could have helped her. She could have likely beat Julia for silver but if she had lost to Mao people would be all "I told you so, etc. etc. etc." As she has said, Sotnikova does hope to come back next season and continue improving. I don't think she's the type of skater who thinks she's hit her peak and needs to quit while she's ahead, but at this point she's got the biggest prize of all so I wouldn't be surprised or hold it against her if she loses the motivation to continue... especially when her own country will become insanely competitive over the next quadrennial.

  9. #69
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    That's why I don't think she'll improve. She got awarded OGM already without having to be perfect and there's a dozen more Adelinas where she came from so to speak. So there's not much incentive to go on and be even better. Mao/Yuna always had their rivalry. The American girls have the drive to restore America as the world's womens fs capital. Most OGMs burn out without those kinds of circumstances.

  10. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by YLFan View Post
    I don't know why anyone would think Yulia is going to grow at 16 when she had her growth spurt. She might put on a pound or two but I don't see her body changing much in the next couple years.
    She has likely finished growing "up". But her body is still very much a straight-up-and-down child's body. You can bury your head in the sand all you like but that WILL change. Remember, it didn't bite Liza Tuktamysheva until she was 16-17 too.

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    So what is Gold's excuse for not getting the job done as an 18 year old developed woman.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sk8in View Post
    Are you going to send the Kremlin after me? Ut oh, looks like Putin himself has descended into the figure skating forums. Mao was not consistent under CoP this past season because of her white whale/3A. Point is under the CoP system, Gracie is part of a new generation ready to milk it with new jump combos, and she's getting more consistent---where as Mao was fading.
    You're accusing me of being Putin because I said I'd prefer it if you didn't call the Russians brats? How on earth am I supposed to send the Kremlin on you? I'm Canadian.

    I think it's uncalled for to call any of the girls "brats" without provocation. If someone called the American girls "brats," I wouldn't be so happy about that either. Basic courtesy.

    The old, fading Mao Asada just won Worlds despite being hit with a gazillion bogus tech calls. Considering how Gracie did there, it's a bit hypocritical to call Mao "inconsistent." (I completely agree that Mao is inconsistent, but that's no reason to put her on the same level as Gracie Gold. I mean, it would be like saying Chan is inconsistent and therefore his comeback will go as well as Jeremy Abbott's).

  13. #73
    P/B Appreciation Squad fleeting's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by YLFan View Post
    So what is Gold's excuse for not getting the job done as an 18 year old developed woman.
    There isn't one. Maybe she was tired, maybe it was all the pressure, maybe it was changing coaches in the middle of the season. It could be her screwy double axel that throws off everything else.

    But that doesn't count her out in the future.

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    Quote Originally Posted by fleeting View Post
    There isn't one. Maybe she was tired, maybe it was all the pressure, maybe it was changing coaches in the middle of the season. It could be her screwy double axel that throws off everything else.

    But that doesn't count her out in the future.
    Fleeting: this isn't directed towards you in partiular.

    So why is everyone counting out Yulia? Saying she's going to suddenly stop being able to win medals when she has one from every competition(international) in the last three years. And only one bronze, the rest are mostly gold with a few silver. I don't want to be rude but I mean enough is enough. If, and that a huge if, Yulia's body changes, I wouldn't count on her losing her jumps. I also wouldn't count on her failing to win medals even if she does struggle with her jumps. Just like every other top skater who can win without a clean performance, Yulia has the talent to be in the mix for any medal.

    I think will see huge amount of shifting in the ranks at each competition next year, because, at the GP in particular, no one skater is ahead of the pack. By the GPF, though I think we'll have a better idea of who the top six or seven contenders are.

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    When your the best it attracts haters.

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