"Women" and "Girls" for season 2014-15 | Page 5 | Golden Skate

"Women" and "Girls" for season 2014-15

CanadianSkaterGuy

Record Breaker
Joined
Jan 25, 2013
I don't think an additional growth spurt would hurt, say, Yulia. I think she has the potential for higher, more powerful jumps. What I'm curious is if it would negatively affect her trademark flexibility. And as we saw, Adelina's growth spurt in 2011 certainly didn't hurt her this past season, and her jumps improved.

I'm not so sure. She "whips" around jumps and doesn't spring like other skaters do. Adelina's technique is *jumping* her jumps so a growth spurt was fine. For Julia however, she might have to revise her technique, especially for jumps like her axel and salchow and loop which she can't vault off a toe pick and has to rely more on actual leg strength and technique. It's no surprise that Julia's mistakes have often been on her salchow and loop, and that her axel doesn't get much height. Maybe a growth spurt might provide her legs some more strength. Although I would imagine it would compromise her flexibility to some extent. With a growth spurt, she might be like Zhang, can still do a pearl, but with not as much ease/speed as before.
 

Amei

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 11, 2013
I don't think an additional growth spurt would hurt, say, Yulia.

I think most people who are pulling the puberty card, are talking more about her growing out vs. up; getting female curves and that affecting center of gravity, jump height, etc.

What I'm curious is if it would negatively affect her trademark flexibility.

Sasha Cohen didn't lose her flexibility as she got older (during her competitive days). Some commentator said during 1 of her performances that she stretches like 45 minutes a day... if that's true and she maintains that amount of stretching, it's not likely she loses her flexibility

And as we saw, Adelina's growth spurt in 2011 certainly didn't hurt her this past season, and her jumps improved.

Julia and Elena are in a great spot (IMO) to go through puberty and develop female curves and potentially develop some issues right now, because they are 4 years away from the Olympics. They have time to work out those issues before it's an Olympic season, unlike Elizaveta Tuk. who got it during an Olympic year.
 

Sam-Skwantch

“I solemnly swear I’m up to no good”
Record Breaker
Joined
Dec 29, 2013
Country
United-States
Well, she certainly got the job done at the Olympics where she placed higher than Lipnitskaia in the individual event. :sarcasm:

BTW, what's Julia's excuse for failing to win Russian Nationals?

No excuses needed for her Nationals skate. Any 15 yr old who can skate in one of the most contested events in ladies FS, at least in terms of Nationals, and only have a minor step out in the SP has a lot to be proud of. Gracie on the other hand who you seem to be comparing her to only beat lip in an event with inflated scores and Yulia falling twice. Gracie still has never skated clean at a big event and won or been on the podium higher than her. I mean if Gracie can't even beat Mao (!) how can she beat Lip? (Obvious snarcasm)
 

anyanka

Record Breaker
Joined
Jul 8, 2011
I think most people who are pulling the puberty card, are talking more about her growing out vs. up; getting female curves and that affecting center of gravity, jump height, etc.



Sasha Cohen didn't lose her flexibility as she got older (during her competitive days). Some commentator said during 1 of her performances that she stretches like 45 minutes a day... if that's true and she maintains that amount of stretching, it's not likely she loses her flexibility



Julia and Elena are in a great spot (IMO) to go through puberty and develop female curves and potentially develop some issues right now, because they are 4 years away from the Olympics. They have time to work out those issues before it's an Olympic season, unlike Elizaveta Tuk. who got it during an Olympic year.

All good points Amei! And yes, re: flexibility I thought of Sasha, too!
 

Mrs. P

Uno, Dos, twizzle!
Record Breaker
Joined
Dec 27, 2009
Sasha Cohen didn't lose her flexibility as she got older (during her competitive days). Some commentator said during 1 of her performances that she stretches like 45 minutes a day... if that's true and she maintains that amount of stretching, it's not likely she loses her flexibility

Jason Brown comes to mind also. He stated that he stretcher two hours a day! And Jason is quite flexible despite being past puberty (as far as I'm concerned). So perhaps Julia will be more of a Sasha.
 

sk8in

Match Penalty
Joined
Jan 15, 2014
The old, fading Mao Asada just won Worlds despite being hit with a gazillion bogus tech calls. Considering how Gracie did there, it's a bit hypocritical to call Mao "inconsistent." (I completely agree that Mao is inconsistent, but that's no reason to put her on the same level as Gracie Gold. I mean, it would be like saying Chan is inconsistent and therefore his comeback will go as well as Jeremy Abbott's).
Mao is 4 years older than Gracie. That's the bottom line. Her trajectory is down, where as Gracie's is up. Also it might help you to get a sense of irony. I was mocking your umbridge. Calling the propensity of young Russian skaters 'brats' is hardly offensive. Its a commentary on the state of skating. So please save the PC nonsense for your livejournal or whatever.
 

Amei

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 11, 2013
Mao is 4 years older than Gracie. That's the bottom line.

Mao is 23, if she continues to skate for another 4 years to the Olympics she'll be 27, the same age as Carolina Kostner, the Olympic Bronze medalist.

Calling the propensity of young Russian skaters 'brats' is hardly offensive. Its a commentary on the state of skating.

Considering that the definition of brat is: "a child, especially an annoying, spoiled, or impolite child" (from dictionary.com), it is offensive.
 

Sandpiper

Record Breaker
Joined
Apr 16, 2014
Mao is 4 years older than Gracie. That's the bottom line. Her trajectory is down, where as Gracie's is up.
Both Adelina and Yulia are younger than Gracie. Makes no sense to write them off and prop Gracie up, either.

Also it might help you to get a sense of irony. I was mocking your umbridge. Calling the propensity of young Russian skaters 'brats' is hardly offensive. Its a commentary on the state of skating.
Insulting people for no reason isn't irony. Nor is it very construction commentary on the state of skating.

So please save the PC nonsense for your livejournal or whatever.
Sorry to disappoint you. I don't have Livejournal. And you're right, I'm being too PC, saying stuff like "I'd appreciate it..." Should've made some Putin comparisons and mocked you with "Takes one to know one," huh?
 

sk8in

Match Penalty
Joined
Jan 15, 2014
Mao is 23, if she continues to skate for another 4 years to the Olympics she'll be 27, the same age as Carolina Kostner, the Olympic Bronze medalist.



Considering that the definition of brat is: "a child, especially an annoying, spoiled, or impolite child" (from dictionary.com), it is offensive.
Maybe you can start a campaign for outraged children of the world. You can put a stop to this anti-minor hate speech! Also, yes Julia is 15. I believe the point established here is that 18 is a sweet spot. It puts the skater at their physical peak, while still being healthy enough to excel further. Everyone knows that by mid 20s female skaters become much more injury prone, and don't have the same stamina.
 

Amei

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 11, 2013
Maybe you can start a campaign for outraged children of the world. You can put a stop to this anti-minor hate speech! Also, yes Julia is 15. I believe the point established here is that 18 is a sweet spot. It puts the skater at their physical peak, while still being healthy enough to excel further. Everyone knows that by mid 20s female skaters become much more injury prone, and don't have the same stamina.

2018 Olympics, Julia 19 and Gracie 22, by your logic the most promising skater is Julia and skaters her age, not an already 18 year old Gracie.
 

Sam-Skwantch

“I solemnly swear I’m up to no good”
Record Breaker
Joined
Dec 29, 2013
Country
United-States
Maybe you can start a campaign for outraged children of the world. You can put a stop to this anti-minor hate speech! Also, yes Julia is 15. I believe the point established here is that 18 is a sweet spot. It puts the skater at their physical peak, while still being healthy enough to excel further. Everyone knows that by mid 20s female skaters become much more injury prone, and don't have the same stamina.

If 18 is the sweet spot then writing Yulia off at 15 is even more funny and not to mention ironic :laugh:She and Elena will be 19 and 18 respectively going into the next Olympics. SWEET!!

In all seriousness I wish all ladies the best of luck and I see no reason to write anyone off at this point. Next season will see a more even playing field amongst the ladies which will make for :popcorn:

What's with all the H8in anyway?
 

Sam-Skwantch

“I solemnly swear I’m up to no good”
Record Breaker
Joined
Dec 29, 2013
Country
United-States
2018 Olympics, Julia 19 and Gracie 22, by your logic the most promising skater is Julia and skaters her age, not an already 18 year old Gracie.

Lol I didn't even see your post and I said the same thing. "Great minds...."
 

Alba

Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 26, 2014
Maybe you can start a campaign for outraged children of the world. You can put a stop to this anti-minor hate speech!

There is no need to start a campaign. If you have a working cell left in your brain you should stop (don't even start) hate speeches and offensive terms towards any skater. Whether this skater is a minor or an adult, male or female, it doesn't matter at all.
 

sk8in

Match Penalty
Joined
Jan 15, 2014
2018 Olympics, Julia 19 and Gracie 22, by your logic the most promising skater is Julia and skaters her age, not an already 18 year old Gracie.
No, if Julia can still skate at 18, she will not be the best skater ever, she will then become promising, because she will have her fully matured adult body. Gracie has four years to train into her best skating form. Julia has a bumpy road in terms of growing hips etc. Really, this is just common knowledge. No need for you to be intellectually dishonest because I offended your devotion to a child athlete.
 

sk8in

Match Penalty
Joined
Jan 15, 2014
There is no need to start a campaign. If you have a working cell left in your brain you should stop (don't even start) hate speeches and offensive terms towards any skater. Whether this skater is a minor or an adult, male or female, it doesn't matter at all.
lol No I'll keep calling them brats, and when no one but delusional pathetic ingrates are offended, you can start your political campaign 4tehchilrenz! See I just came up with your slogan. You being offended because you are invested in a 15 year old girl, does not make calling 15 year olds brats offensive. It makes you a pathetic human being.
 

Selene

On the Ice
Joined
Feb 7, 2012
Gracie has better speed and flow than Adelina, and she has tighter rotation. Despite the wonky air position, her technique is overall superior. Adelina's jumps are purely based on power. She doesn't have as much control, which is why she can't do a Lz properly.

All of your statements are incorrect. Sotnikova has far superior skating skills, speed, flow and jump quality.

Which skaters' jumps garner more positive GOE when well executed? Adelina, by far. Her jumps, minus the lutz, are all excellent. Gracie does not have quality jumps; she just has difficult jumps (that she often fails to execute, hence her poor competitive record.) Gracie has stiff landings, no flow out of jumps, poor height, etc. Her jumps are not good and have been deteriorating since she started training with Carroll.

You overestimate Gold's jumping technique. Her double axel and triple flip are awful jumps, meaning she has horrible technique on 2/6 of her main jumps that she performs. And she needs much tighter rotation than Sotnikova because she can't generate the same power Sotnikova does. Sotnikova's jumps have like twice the height of Gold's, so she would overrotate jumps if she had tighter air position. They are different style jumpers. Sotnikova is a power jumper in the mold of Slutskaya. Gold is more like Sasha Cohen, someone with tiny jumps that relies on quick rotation. I guess it's a matter of preference, but I vastly prefer Sotnikova's style.
 

papa

Match Penalty
Joined
Mar 26, 2014
lol No I'll keep calling them brats, and when no one but delusional pathetic ingrates are offended, you can start your political campaign 4tehchilrenz! See I just came up with your slogan. You being offended because you are invested in a 15 year old girl, does not make calling 15 year olds brats offensive. It makes you a pathetic human being.
No you won't.
I can take ridiculing and insulting my fav skaters, calling names even, but I won't let you touch ppl like Alba, who is one of the most laid-back, polite and respected posters here.

You've been reported and if you survive, you better slow down or I'm coming after you. :mad:
 

YLFan

Match Penalty
Joined
Apr 3, 2014
Theres nothing different about Yulias body now compared to last season. So its a nonsensical hypothesis to begin with. By the time she puts on more weight she will be retired. 2018 Olympics will likely her last event before retiring.

While Gold will be hanging on into her 20's like Wagner hoping 'this is the year'.
 

karne

in Emergency Backup Mode
Record Breaker
Joined
Jan 1, 2013
Country
Australia
Theres nothing different about Yulias body now compared to last season.

But that's exactly the point.

Girls grow and change during puberty. They turn from the straight up-and-down body of a child to the curvy body of a woman. Yulia hasn't turned into a woman yet. Her jumps are questionable to begin with; how will they go when everything goes out of whack?
 
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