"Women" and "Girls" for season 2014-15 | Page 6 | Golden Skate

"Women" and "Girls" for season 2014-15

YLFan

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Apr 3, 2014
She grew a lot from last year and had one of the best senior seasons ever.
 

karne

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Jan 1, 2013
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She grew a lot from last year and had one of the best senior seasons ever.

Sorry, I thought you just said there was no difference?

She grew - up. She has yet to develop. A lot of girls go up before they go out.
 

YLFan

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Joined
Apr 3, 2014
From 14-15 she had a growth spurt.

There is nothing to suggest her current body is any different from last season.

You are now hoping for some sort of post 16 years old growth spurt for a naturally very petite girl. Its just negative wishful thinking.
 

kwanatic

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May 19, 2011
Theres nothing different about Yulias body now compared to last season. So its a nonsensical hypothesis to begin with. By the time she puts on more weight she will be retired. 2018 Olympics will likely her last event before retiring.

While Gold will be hanging on into her 20's like Wagner hoping 'this is the year'.

Julia doesn't look as though she'll gain a lot of curves which is a plus for her style of technique. Like I said, no one can know, but I'm thinking she'll mature similarly to the way Sasha Cohen did around 17 years old.

Sasha at 15: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B-loMk4Zrko
Sasha at 17: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w0WRxKfgAsI

By 17, it was clear she'd grown but her body hadn't changed that much. She was bigger and heavier but not in a way that was detrimental to her skating. Sasha looked more mature and left an even more elegant impression on the ice; she looked like a young woman instead of a girl.

I think it's foolish to think Julia will not grow anymore; she's only 15. It's not necessarily a bad thing though. I have to agree that her technique on some of her jumps is a little whippy which means she may have to adjust it, BUT I don't feel as though Julia is "done" or that whatever body changes she experiences will knock her off of the top. She's a fighter and one of the most competitive skaters in this newer generation which means she'll work hard to adjust and maintain her positioning. Like with all of the girls going through puberty, we'll just have to wait.

As for her flexibility, as long as she continues to stretch I don't see her losing it. Caroline Zhang lost her Pearl for the most part, but Mirai Nagasu has lost no flexibility in her spins...only a bit of speed. When you're bigger, you can't rotate as fast which means Julia may lose a little speed, but considering she's pretty much a blur now I don't think losing a few RPMs will hurt her.
 

CanadianSkaterGuy

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Joined
Jan 25, 2013
All of your statements are incorrect. Sotnikova has far superior skating skills, speed, flow and jump quality.

Which skaters' jumps garner more positive GOE when well executed? Adelina, by far. Her jumps, minus the lutz, are all excellent. Gracie does not have quality jumps; she just has difficult jumps (that she often fails to execute, hence her poor competitive record.) Gracie has stiff landings, no flow out of jumps, poor height, etc. Her jumps are not good and have been deteriorating since she started training with Carroll.

This is incorrect to say her "jumps are not good". Gold has technique issues with her lip and issues with her double axel, but she gets a lot more height on jumps than other skaters. Her 3Z+3T in particular is easily better than any skater out there (other than maybe Kim). Look at 6:12... that's a textbook jump, better than any 3-3 Lipnitskaia or Sotnikova has ever executed. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0mi8zMhuxSo

Sotnikova has some stiff landings herself.. I mean, look at her 3F, which has little flow on the exit.
 

Sam-Skwantch

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Dec 29, 2013
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I'm not sure of the reason but Gracie seemed to be landing more stiff as the season progressed and began crawling out of her jumps. I hope it's not a sign of anything and as suggested earlier she can losen the reigns on some of the old power jumps she did. During the WC and Olympics there was definite chatter around GS about her jumps looking weird and especially during the event in the ladies thread. I think it's possible she is just skating a bit too guarded and the result is inconsistency unfortunately.

@CSG Did you lose a bet to Skyfly or something? I mean you've always been supportive toward Gracie but even you have sided with Adelina being a better jumper than Gracie in previous posts if my memory serves me correctly.
 

gkelly

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Joined
Jul 26, 2003
Time will tell which of these skaters continue to improve or maintain their current skills and succeed competitively, and which lose skills to natural body changes, injuries, etc. All we can do in this thread is guess, and there may be no way to prove those guesses right or wrong if other factors also affect these skaters' career trajectories.

I expect that 4 years from now there will be top skaters in their 20s, in their late teens, and in their mid-teens who are now juniors or novices and haven't yet laid claim to future top results.

Personally, I'm looking forward to watching all the current skaters who are not retiring continue to compete and hope they all develop more mature presentation along with maintaining or improving athletic skills, competing against each other over the coming years, with some medals at various events for all the good ones.
 

Sandpiper

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Apr 16, 2014
@CSG Did you lose a bet to Skyfly or something? I mean you've always been supportive toward Gracie but even you have sided with Adelina being a better jumper than Gracie in previous posts if my memory serves me correctly.
:laugh: I nearly choked on my food.
 

CanadianSkaterGuy

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Joined
Jan 25, 2013
I'm not sure of the reason but Gracie seemed to be landing more stiff as the season progressed and began crawling out of her jumps. I hope it's not a sign of anything and as suggested earlier she can losen the reigns on some of the old power jumps she did. During the WC and Olympics there was definite chatter around GS about her jumps looking weird and especially during the event in the ladies thread. I think it's possible she is just skating a bit too guarded and the result is inconsistency unfortunately.

@CSG Did you lose a bet to Skyfly or something? I mean you've always been supportive toward Gracie but even you have sided with Adelina being a better jumper than Gracie in previous posts if my memory serves me correctly.

Haha... I'm just saying that it's incorrect to say Gold's jumps are "not good" or have "poor height". I don't think I've ever said Adelina is the superior jumper... although arguably, she is at this point... she does have more transitions, and much better technique on her axel. They both have edge issues (one flutzes, one lips), and both don't always get flow out of their jumps. Sotnikova is starting to stay on her feet whereas Gold had at least one major error in her FS throughout the season (except team FS in Sochi). However, Gold's 3-3 is superior to Sotnikova's (which tends to be UR).

I'm supportive towards both Sotnikova and Gracie, and hope both solve their consistency/technical issues next season and make the ladies field that much more exciting.
 

kwanatic

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May 19, 2011
I used to think that Gracie's jumps were massive but ever since she hooked up with Frank, the only jumps she really wows me on is her lutz.

I agree with Sam when it comes to Gracie's landings. She used to have more flow in her landings, though she'd fall a bit more frequently. Now, for the most part, she's staying upright but she lands kinda heavy and very tight with little flow...I guess that's her way of coping with the nerves. It's much more preferable to splatting but it doesn't leave a great impression for the overall program.
 

CanadianSkaterGuy

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Jan 25, 2013
I used to think that Gracie's jumps were massive but ever since she hooked up with Frank, the only jumps she really wows me on is her lutz.

I agree with Sam when it comes to Gracie's landings. She used to have more flow in her landings, though she'd fall a bit more frequently. Now, for the most part, she's staying upright but she lands kinda heavy and very tight with little flow...I guess that's her way of coping with the nerves. It's much more preferable to splatting but it doesn't leave a great impression for the overall program.

It might be nerves, or it might be her body still going through changes. She needs to develop better spring in her legs, particularly for jumps like her loop and certainly for her axel.
 

Ophelia

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Joined
Dec 6, 2013
Soyoun Park's jumps are the only ones out of the current ladies' that I find impressive all-around. She has decent speed going in, great rotations and body positioning in air, and good landings and flow-out. Off the top of my head, I can't think of anyone else in next season's ladies field that has such well-rounded jumps. Most of the ladies are strong in some aspects and weak in others (ex: big, explosive jumps, but unattractive launches and landings).
 

skatedreamer

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Feb 18, 2014
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lol No I'll keep calling them brats, and when no one but delusional pathetic ingrates are offended, you can start your political campaign 4tehchilrenz! See I just came up with your slogan. You being offended because you are invested in a 15 year old girl, does not make calling 15 year olds brats offensive. It makes you a pathetic human being.

If taking offense at "brats" as a general description of the young Russian women skaters makes me a delusional pathetic ingrate, then that's exactly what I am. And proud of it!

Since you're such an expert at what makes someone a brat and/or pathetic, allow me to remind you that it takes one to know one.
 

kwanatic

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May 19, 2011
Soyoun Park's jumps are the only ones out of the current ladies' that I find impressive all-around. She has decent speed going in, great rotations and body positioning in air, and good landings and flow-out. Off the top of my head, I can't think of anyone else in next season's ladies field that has such well-rounded jumps. Most of the ladies are strong in some aspects and weak in others (ex: big, explosive jumps, but unattractive launches and landings).

I guess I can't argue against that too much. So-Youn does have lovely jumps, good speed, flow and nice landings as well. The only thing you can hold against her is the difficulty of some of the jumps as well as the transitions BUT I truly believe So-Youn is every bit as good if not better than a lot of the top ladies competing. Her style and presentation is absolutely beautiful (very Yu-Na circa 2007-08 only with much better lines) and she's a lovely performer as well. She just needs to up her content and start hitting consistently to put herself on the map.

I love her though. Gorgeous skater...
 

Ophelia

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Joined
Dec 6, 2013
^I heard she's adding a triple-triple to her LP (she did it in SP this year), so the difficulty level of her programs will go up. It remains to be seen if she'll remain consistent in competitions, and if she'll build up enough of a reputation to be a challenge for the podium.

Soyoun's skating aesthetic is lovely. Her jump technique is similar to Yuna's, but I find her skating to be much sweeter, joyful, and softer (might be because she hasn't been buried by the pressure and expectations yet). I hope they let her fine-tune her own individual style and not try to force her into being a Yuna 2.0.
 

CanadianSkaterGuy

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Jan 25, 2013
^I heard she's adding a triple-triple to her LP (she did it in SP this year), so the difficulty level of her programs will go up. It remains to be seen if she'll remain consistent in competitions, and if she'll build up enough of a reputation to be a challenge for the podium.

Soyoun's skating aesthetic is lovely. Her jump technique is similar to Yuna's, but I find her skating to be much sweeter, joyful, and softer (prob. because she hasn't been buried under all the pressure and expectations yet). I hope they let her fine-tune her own individual style and not try to force her into being a Yuna 2.0.

I also hope people don't treat her like a Li and put all this pressure on her because of one solid competition. Many people are calling her a threat or consistent, based of her Worlds performances. I wonder if people feel the same for Chafik Besseghier?
 

kwanatic

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May 19, 2011
I also hope people don't treat her like a Li and put all this pressure on her because of one solid competition. Many people are calling her a threat or consistent, based of her Worlds performances. I wonder if people feel the same for Chafik Besseghier?

Who? :laugh:

I agree. Knocking her FS out the way she did was a major accomplishment and proved that she does have the goods to skate well and (with consistent performances) to score well. However, she's still very young and rather inexperienced at the senior level. She'll be competing on the senior GP this year, right? (for all of my knowledge re: figure skating I'm pretty clueless when it comes to world rankings and GP slots :slink:)
 

Jammers

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Nov 4, 2010
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All of your statements are incorrect. Sotnikova has far superior skating skills, speed, flow and jump quality.

Which skaters' jumps garner more positive GOE when well executed? Adelina, by far. Her jumps, minus the lutz, are all excellent. Gracie does not have quality jumps; she just has difficult jumps (that she often fails to execute, hence her poor competitive record.) Gracie has stiff landings, no flow out of jumps, poor height, etc. Her jumps are not good and have been deteriorating since she started training with Carroll.

You overestimate Gold's jumping technique. Her double axel and triple flip are awful jumps, meaning she has horrible technique on 2/6 of her main jumps that she performs. And she needs much tighter rotation than Sotnikova because she can't generate the same power Sotnikova does. Sotnikova's jumps have like twice the height of Gold's, so she would overrotate jumps if she had tighter air position. They are different style jumpers. Sotnikova is a power jumper in the mold of Slutskaya. Gold is more like Sasha Cohen, someone with tiny jumps that relies on quick rotation. I guess it's a matter of preference, but I vastly prefer Sotnikova's style.

Gracie has tiny jumps like Sasha Cohen? Are you nuts? Yes last season Gold's jumps weren't as big as in previous years and i think part of that is thanks to Frank Carroll making Gracie get too thin and that took some power from her. Please tell me when Sasha ever had as huge a 3lutz3toe as Gracie did at Nationals in 2013 for instance.
 

Sam-Skwantch

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Dec 29, 2013
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Lets not forget that Ashley knocked her FS out of the park at worlds too. On top of that Ashley easily outperformed Park in Sochi and not too many people are saying Ashley is going to take over based on her Worlds performance. Consistency is going to be very crucial going forward with such a level playing field ahead. ITA with CSG about not putting too much pressure on her and I'm secretly hoping she can get away from skating too similarly to Yuna. Right now it's very evident in her presentation. Maybe that's not a bad thing but maybe too soon? In any case I was wowed by Park at Worlds and look forward to seeing her season develop. She carries a certain grace that really connects to the music and the audience. I like what I see from this one :yes:
 

kwanatic

Check out my YT channel, Bare Ice!
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May 19, 2011
Gracie has tiny jumps like Sasha Cohen? Are you nuts? Yes last season Gold's jumps weren't as big as in previous years and i think part of that is thanks to Frank Carroll making Gracie get too thin and that took some power from her. Please tell me when Sasha ever had as huge a 3lutz3toe as Gracie did at Nationals in 2013 for instance.

I'm not as impressed by Gracie's jumps now as I was in 2013 but I wouldn't call her a tiny jumper. For that matter, I wouldn't call Sasha a tiny jumper either; she was an average jumper.

I will agree that the quality (mainly the power) of Gracie's jumps declined this year but she's still a solid jumper. Her lutz is excellent; flip is a lip and a bit inconsistent; loop is often eeked out, definitely not her strongest; salchow is okay; and her axel is a bit temperamental. She's not the best technician in the field but she's a solid jumper, that's for sure.
 
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