Page 2 of 3 FirstFirst 1 2 3 LastLast
Results 16 to 30 of 32

Thread: Should Skaters Chose Music For Themselves or For the Judges?

  1. #16
    Custom Title Mathman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Location
    Detroit, Michigan
    Posts
    28,353
    It seems like it would be a big advantage to a skater to be able to consult with someone (a choreographer, etc.) who has an extensive knowledge of different kinds of music. The perfect piece, and one that both the skater and the judges will love, might be something that the skater has never heard of.

    The skater's favorite song might be Justin Bieber, in which case she needs someone to tell her, no, dear.

  2. #17
    Custom Title
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Posts
    3,896
    YES to both hanca's and Mathman's points.

    The goal shouldn't be to find the skater's or the judges' favorite music to listen to, but rather to find a piece that will best show off the skater's ability to skate to music. So that means understanding what kinds of music best suit that purpose in general, and then to narrow that down kinds of music that suit this specific skater's skating skills and music interpretation skills and general image on the ice at this point in time.

    A choreographer or other skating music specialist who knows a lot of pieces in a lot of musical genres and who also knows from experience what kinds of music work well for what kinds of skaters would be an extremely valuable resource.

    Then once pieces that would work in theory have been identified, the skater needs to choose pieces that they actually enjoy and connect with.

    If the skater can interpret the music well, clearly, the judges will enjoy that interpretation even if it wasn't a piece of music they would have chosen for their personal playlists.

  3. #18
    Landing 3As in my dreams! skatedreamer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2014
    Location
    New York
    Posts
    939
    Quote Originally Posted by Mathman View Post
    The skater's favorite song might be Justin Bieber, in which case she needs someone to tell her, no, dear.
    Agree w/ you 99.999999%. Reason it's not 100% is the Shibs' Michael Jackson routine, which actually made me think that maybe...just maybe...MJ might not be so bad. For me, that's just short of apocalyptic. So if Zoueva can do that w/ MJ, maybe she or someone else can work the same magic w/ Justin Bieber.

    As they say in the NY Lottery ads: hey, you never know.

  4. #19
    Custom Title
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Posts
    2,125
    Quote Originally Posted by skatedreamer View Post
    This really belongs in the "Music People Should Be Skating To" thread but...

    gkelly's comment about vocal music made me think of Villa-Lobos' gorgeous and haunting Bachianas Brasileiras No. 5. The first few minutes are wordless and I think this would be an amazing piece for a woman who could really interpret it, maybe someone like Carolina Kostner -- too bad she's retiring!

    This interpretation by the Brasilian soprano Bidu Sayao, who sang at the Met in the '30s and '40s, is one of the finest ever. Hope you enjoy it.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bLZD0XplYrI
    I think Joan Baez's version is very good too. Not the Joan most people will expect.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xfTtUxyjOaE

  5. #20
    Landing 3As in my dreams! skatedreamer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2014
    Location
    New York
    Posts
    939
    Quote Originally Posted by Icey View Post
    I think Joan Baez's version is very good too. Not the Joan most people will expect.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xfTtUxyjOaE
    Thanks, Icey! I did find that one last night, too; chose Bidu Sayao b/c her version is more or less the classic one. But JB's recording knocked my socks off -- her silvery voice is one of the loveliest ever. I've always known her as a folk singer and had no idea she ever touched classical music. This was a revelation.

    There's also a Baez performance of "Ave Maria" on YouTube -- gotta go back and listen to that one, too.

  6. #21
    Custom Title
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Posts
    2,827
    Sometimes even if what the skater loves is traditional skating music, it doesn't work.

    Case in point: Max and Carmen. He'd wanted to skate to it since he was a child. Whether because he's just not suited for that music cut or because they brought in Nichol, it didn't work.

  7. #22
    still fangirling for Toller... el henry's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2014
    Location
    Christmas City, USA
    Posts
    200
    Quote Originally Posted by skatedreamer View Post
    Agree w/ you 99.999999%. Reason it's not 100% is the Shibs' Michael Jackson routine, which actually made me think that maybe...just maybe...MJ might not be so bad. For me, that's just short of apocalyptic. So if Zoueva can do that w/ MJ, maybe she or someone else can work the same magic w/ Justin Bieber.

    As they say in the NY Lottery ads: hey, you never know.
    And I love Michael Jackson (Jackson Five is *my* era, baby), but the Shibs' FS ... meh.

    I think that the skater who can think *beyond* his own favorite or beloved music may have the edge. I doubt Jason Brown was listening to much Irish music before Riverdance, and if I recall the articles written, particularly the one in the NY Times, he had to be sold on the routine, but once he was sold, we all know what happened.

    And I love Jason's Riverdance, but off the ice, I still can't stand Irish music.

  8. #23
    Custom Title Mathman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Location
    Detroit, Michigan
    Posts
    28,353
    Quote Originally Posted by karne View Post
    Sometimes even if what the skater loves is traditional skating music, it doesn't work.

    Case in point: Max and Carmen. He'd wanted to skate to it since he was a child. Whether because he's just not suited for that music cut or because they brought in Nichol, it didn't work.
    I thought the music and the version of the choreography that Max brought to U.S. Nationals was great.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fEFeFhZzYS0

    Quote Originally Posted by el henry View Post
    And I love Michael Jackson (Jackson Five is *my* era, baby), but the Shibs' FS ... meh.
    I thought it was a nice dance program and that their Olympic performance was excellent. But if you take on Michael Jackson you better be prepared to do Michael Jackson. I'm not sure how one does a rotational lift or a pairs spin in the style of Michael.

    A better idea might be to forget Michael and just dance to his songs. Here are Borne and Kraatz.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lmpChupj_RY
    Last edited by Mathman; 06-21-2014 at 04:01 PM.

  9. #24
    Custom Title
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Posts
    2,827
    Quote Originally Posted by Mathman View Post
    I thought the music and the version of the choreography that Max brought to U.S. Nationals was great.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fEFeFhZzYS0
    The music cut WAS better at Nationals, and Max skated his little heart out. But the choreography was cookie-cutter dross that was copy-pasted from Nichol's Lysacek Carmen. It was like Nichol went, "Ho hum, he wants to do Carmen, well, I can't be bothered coming up with anything new, I'll just recycle stuff and see if anybody notices." She didn't put any effort at all into that program.

    On the flip side, Max's samba SP was MUCH better because you knew Camerlengo actually worked on it with him and worked on it with him hard. There was a lot more opportunity for Max to express himself.

  10. #25
    still fangirling for Toller... el henry's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2014
    Location
    Christmas City, USA
    Posts
    200
    I thought it was a nice dance program and that their Olympic performance was excellent. But if you take on Michael Jackson you better be prepared to do Michael Jackson. I'm not sure how one does a rotational lift or a pairs spin in the style of Michael.

    A better idea might be to forget Michael and just dance to his songs. Here are Borne and Kraatz.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lmpChupj_RY[/QUOTE]

    thanks, Mathman. Maybe it's a Canadian thing. Unfair, because it's pro, an exhibition, and of course Kurt Browining, but another great interpretation of the songs of my "jammin' gold" youth. It can be done.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7RtL68KBBhY

  11. #26
    Custom Title Mathman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Location
    Detroit, Michigan
    Posts
    28,353
    Quote Originally Posted by el henry View Post
    thanks, Mathman. Maybe it's a Canadian thing. Unfair, because it's pro, an exhibition, and of course Kurt Browining, but another great interpretation of the songs of my "jammin' gold" youth. It can be done.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7RtL68KBBhY
    The one and only!

    Of course, if I went back to my jammin' youth I would be looking for Elvis Presley, Little Richard, and Bill Haley and the Comets.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uleMkwZ5fwE

  12. #27
    Rinkside
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Posts
    4
    Quote Originally Posted by el henry View Post
    I thought it was a nice dance program and that their Olympic performance was excellent. But if you take on Michael Jackson you better be prepared to do Michael Jackson. I'm not sure how one does a rotational lift or a pairs spin in the style of Michael.

    A better idea might be to forget Michael and just dance to his songs. Here are Borne and Kraatz.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lmpChupj_RY
    thanks, Mathman. Maybe it's a Canadian thing. Unfair, because it's pro, an exhibition, and of course Kurt Browining, but another great interpretation of the songs of my "jammin' gold" youth. It can be done.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7RtL68KBBhY[/QUOTE]

    If I wasn't already head over heels for Kurt Browning, that performance would have done it for me. Thanks for bringing back a great skating memory! He's one of my favorite skaters ever, and he seems like a genuinely nice person.

  13. #28
    Sometimes bad skating happens to good people... LiamForeman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Bible Belt
    Posts
    431
    Quote Originally Posted by gkelly View Post
    The goal shouldn't be to find the skater's or the judges' favorite music to listen to, but rather to find a piece that will best show off the skater's ability to skate to music. So that means understanding what kinds of music best suit that purpose in general, and then to narrow that down kinds of music that suit this specific skater's skating skills and music interpretation skills and general image on the ice at this point in time.

    A choreographer or other skating music specialist who knows a lot of pieces in a lot of musical genres and who also knows from experience what kinds of music work well for what kinds of skaters would be an extremely valuable resource.
    I agree. Which is why I have been so disappointed in Nichol. She appears to just recycle old moves no matter who the skater is. I would be pissed off if I paid eight gramd to her to only realize I'm recycling a losing Fumie Suguri program. My god.

    To answer the question, no one knows. But I don't think 'the judges' are as old fashioned and staid as people want to believe. Can anyone make sense of Plushenko the last ten years? All those french bizarre skaters who never had musical sense let alone skating skills? I think the key to musical selection is WHAT MOVES YOU. If you skate eggs out to something you are passionate about, the audience will notice and so will the panel. If you are just a rehash of Fratianne choreo and music or all Carroll students who MUST skate to Carmen no matter what, it will show. One of my favorite off-beat skates I watched at Nationals was Stephanie something, Rosenthal?, who skated to Herbie Hancock's "Rock It". I was ready to dismiss it as cheese, but she sold it, she visibly was enjoying herself. I think she even got 5.6 for presentation even though her jumps were not really competitive. It was a great program and won the crowd. And I guess, isn't that what high level skaters strive for? You could miss that crucial combination in the SP and it's all over, but if you skate to something that moves you and you clearly are intertwined with, that makes a great performance. Jason's SP to Prince this year was a perfect example. I grew up with Prince music, but even I thought it was risky until I saw it. So yes, a great choreographer can make all the difference. I hope Rohene Ward gets all the praise and clients he deserves. He's brilliant.

    So, IMO, choose music that means something to you and not just do choreography because you are told to. I'm still scratching my chin over Robin's choreo to Sarah's Don Quixote where she scratches her chin in front of the judges. Totally bizarre.

  14. #29
    Missing Tdizzle and SDiggity golden411's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Posts
    5,071
    Quote Originally Posted by karne View Post
    ... On the flip side, Max's samba SP was MUCH better because you knew Camerlengo actually worked on it with him and worked on it with him hard. There was a lot more opportunity for Max to express himself.
    Saw an oblique reference on Twitter that I think means that Max Aaron is at DSC at the moment .... so fingers crossed that his new FS choreo is from Camerlengo.

  15. #30
    Columnist
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Location
    Germany
    Posts
    503
    Quote Originally Posted by Sam-Skwantch View Post
    I was at the rink the other day and struck up a conversation with one of my favorite local rising stars. As the topic turned to music and choosing pieces I made a suggestion that she should use a song from the Two Steps From Hell album Archangel. http://youtu.be/dJ-QLl5qjLg

    I told her I could edit it however she liked and even tossed in the idea at the 1:25 mark mixing in Radinova's SP music Nero from the same album. Her reaction was "the judges don't know those songs and won't score me well". As a skater with high aspirations I understand how every decision she makes can effect her future in the sport. I certainly didnt push it and told her if she needs any music edited or tweaked to let me know.

    So that raises the question that now is bouncing around my brain and has left me pondering this. Are skaters choosing music for themselves or the judges? Does this explain why people revisit the same music time and time again. Is it the fear of judges that drives the decision making process which in the end stifles individuality and creativity? Thoughts?
    As far I can tell,

    a Skater has to choose music that fits to the program that she or he wants to perform. As example, if you perform to Romeo & Juliet, then it wont make much sense if you pick music by Eminem, just because you like him While there might be the one or the other Slim Shady fan in the jury (yes Paul, I am looking at you!) you probably wont get nice marks for that skate :D

    It works like that in every sport which is supported by music, it all must be one unit and accordingly to the topic or your performance - music, elements and outfit should be chosen appropriately.

    That said,

    the crowd and the judges are not unimportant as we saw at Sochi this year. But you are still limited in your choices to some degree based on the story of your skate and your own abilities on the ice. A shy kitten skating to a very feminine music can be very pale, while the same skater with a very insecure and quiet music could shine.

    Off topic,

    as a performer you should always factor in for whom you perform and while its a thin line to draw in FS, performing for the audience especially the crowd is also helping you as a skater. If the crowd gets behind you, then you can do a lot better than when the crowd isn't.

    One of the major reasons for Henna & Ossis great FD last season was the music, it just grabbed you - if you saw the movie or not, it was magical but required two incredible actors on the ice as well.

Page 2 of 3 FirstFirst 1 2 3 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •