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Thread: Ashley Wagner's popularity

  1. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mathman View Post
    I don't know. When an athlete says. "I just want to do my best," etc., to me that is just her or his way of flipping off the reporter for asking a stupid question.

    "How did it make you feel when you fell on that triple Lutz?" "I just want to skate and have fun."
    HA!

    I must admit I love Ashley's off-ice antics much more than her actual performances, though I do believe her musicality and theatricality are--within a very narrow range--first rate. What I admire most about her on-ice performances is that she appears, to me at least, to reach her full potential given the level of her talents and abilities.

    And I love her frankness. I don't drink but she's someone I would love to ask out for a beer to dish the dirt.

  2. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by WeakAnkles View Post
    HA!

    I must admit I love Ashley's off-ice antics much more than her actual performances, though I do believe her musicality and theatricality are--within a very narrow range--first rate. What I admire most about her on-ice performances is that she appears, to me at least, to reach her full potential given the level of her talents and abilities.

    And I love her frankness. I don't drink but she's someone I would love to ask out for a beer to dish the dirt.
    You can invite me, too. I'll drink your beer

  3. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by desertskates View Post
    You can invite me, too. I'll drink your beer
    Then the drinks are on you


  4. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mathman View Post
    I don't think so. The selections were announced for both men and women before there was any backlash against those selections.

    Ashley was in a unique situation in that she was the only U.S. skater (besides Davis and White) who had any kind of international presence in the two years leading up to the Sochi Olympics. If the USFSA had already determined that past international results would play a role in the selection, Ashley was the only singles skater that could have been affected.

    They could not have left Jeremy Abbott off the team in any case. He was the U.S. champion. Mirai would have gone if she had finished first, or even second, at nationals. The interesting thing is that when it came to the team for worlds, they put Max Aaron ahead of Jason Brown. Based on international results there was no particular reason for doing this (each had won a bronze medal in a Grand Prix event). My guess is that they based the decision on the perception that both of these skaters have potential for the future that ought to be cultivated. They could have done the same for Mirai, sending her to worlds instead of Polina. Evidently they don't regard Mirai as belonging to the "promising up-and-comers" group any more.
    Quote Originally Posted by flutzy13 View Post
    ... With Max, I think you're right that there was a belief that they still had hope for his future. I also think last year played in since that was a very defined part of the selection criterion- he was top 10 (7th?) at Worlds, he was National champion. There also seemed like almost an element of we're sorry that you were basically a lock for the Olympic team in October and now we're not sending you so we'll give you Worlds. Lastly, I think they never believed Jeremy would go to Worlds and they wanted to ensure Max kept training at full throttle. ...
    But didn't the backlash re the Nagasu/Wagner decision start as soon as the announcement of the U.S. ladies for Sochi was made in Boston at midday on Sunday?
    The men's FS did not start until Sunday afternoon (ETA: in other words, after the announcement of the ladies for Sochi) -- and the official presser announcing Abbott and Brown as the men for Sochi did not take place until Sunday evening.

    ETA:
    Jason Brown has said that even after winning the silver in Boston, he did not assume that he would be going to Sochi. He was well aware that because of the criteria other than Nats, he could not be certain until he received the official text message that he had been selected. But surely his awareness was only heightened by Nagasu's fate, which already had been announced several hours earlier.

    That said, I just wish that a third Sochi slot had been available for Max. And that a third Worlds slot had been available for Brown.
    Given that the official USFS criteria for the Olympics and for Worlds were different, I think that USFS made the right call to divide the assignments between the two men.

    (Although I think it is fair to say that Max had seemed like one of the frontrunners for Sochi, I do not think he generally was considered to be a lock. I remember an autumn interview in which the reporter asked a question referring to the Games as if Max definitely would compete there. Max began his answer by saying (I'm paraphrasing), "I hope that I do make it to Sochi." He did not consider himself to be a lock, IMO.)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mathman View Post
    I don't think so. The selections were announced for both men and women before there was any backlash against those selections.
    No, the dance, pairs and ladies was announced the night before the men's long program; the men were announced during the gala.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mathman View Post
    They could not have left Jeremy Abbott off the team in any case. He was the U.S. champion.
    Yes, they could have. The only selection that the Champion is guaranteed is Worlds. The issue is that if ever there was a case for going against National Champion going to the Olympics, it was the men. Because let's face it: what happened in Sochi with Jeremy surprised no-one.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mathman View Post
    The interesting thing is that when it came to the team for worlds, they put Max Aaron ahead of Jason Brown. Based on international results there was no particular reason for doing this (each had won a bronze medal in a Grand Prix event).
    The Worlds selection criteria included last season's Senior Bs, 4CCs, Nats and Worlds. Max had a Senior B gold and silver, National Champion, 4th at 4CCs, and 7th at Worlds to Jason's...9th at Nats.

    I think I was probably the only Jason fan who wasn't immediately upset and angry that Jason wasn't on the Worlds team. I bet if you'd asked Max, he'd have swapped assignments with Jason in a heartbeat.

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    Quote Originally Posted by UnsaneLily87 View Post
    Nothing scarier to a certain group of people than a woman with an opinion.
    As a woman known for her opinion, I find this quite true. In regards to Ashley, I'm not sure if that's the issue. She's just abrasive & arrogant without the charm to make you love her anyway; its all scowl or smirk with her and its annoying. Add to the internet idea that she "stole" the Olympic spot from the exceptionally charming MiRai and you're gonna have issues.

    She reminds me of Nancy Kerrigan in that way - another ice princess that always came across as entitled. And who also had the amazing talent of getting in front of a camera the minute she decided to throw a fit. Granted, post whack, US figure skating fans weren't allowed to say anything other than high praise for her.

    But that's just my opinion.

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    ^Could you explain what's so abrasive and arrogant about Ashley? I'm not seeing it.

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    I see nothing abrasive or arrogant about Ashley! Having talked with her for awhile before SOI in San Jose I found her to be warm, polite, not aggressive and generally very gracious to the fans. Why is it wrong for her to have self-confidence when asked about her chances in Sochi or anywhere else? Do you want her to say "oh, I don't think I'll do very well because I keep messing up. I won't even medal!" If she doesn't have confidence in herself and her abilities - who will? Seems to me like there isn't one US skater that people on this board don't rip from stem to stern for pretty much any reason. And as for leaving Jeremy off the Olympic team - that just wasn't going to happen! I still feel without a doubt that the Oly team and the World team members were appropriate, although I would have loved to see Jason skate at Worlds. It also seems like it's time to move on from these pointless after-the-fact conversations.

  9. #84
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    While I find her on ice demeanor to be quite abrasive, I just don't think it's a bad thing. She engages very strong and delivers her programs with conviction. I've never really thought of her as arrogant at all. I have several friends that have worked events/skated events that Ashley was at and everyone has said how nice and personal she was. I've never heard a complaint on a personal level.

    Why is it wrong for her to have self-confidence when asked about her chances in Sochi or anywhere else? Do you want her to say "oh, I don't think I'll do very well because I keep messing up. I won't even medal!"
    Quite the opposite at GPF. I remember some chatter here in December that Ashley seemed way to content to take bronze at GPF. Yulia was still establishing herself and Ashley had a good PCS advantage and not only lost position in the FS but she seemed content to just medal. I guess that's fine and dandy but if she were arrogant ,as people say, she would have been flipping over losing to such a young challenger but like I said and her interviews indicate...she was content to take 3rd.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sandpiper View Post
    ^Could you explain what's so abrasive and arrogant about Ashley? I'm not seeing it.
    Sure, I am happy to explain. But let me clarify my meaning: I have no problem at all with arrogance and even abrasiveness from athletes, esp those who do not work within a team system. They spend way too much time alone working for perfection to be anything other than self absorbed. And that's just the truth.

    With Ashley, she wears that arrogance like a chip on her shoulder. Her interviews come across as patronizing when she wins, and victimized when she doesn't. Because she skates with a certain harshness of expression, jumps landed translate as "HA! Recognize my greatness!" and falls are "Stupid ice! Why are you so mean to me?!?" After Nationals, her comments were "I just hope USFSA takes into account my record." or something like that with this expression that read as "I earned it, it's mine and I want it!!" and I just rolled my eyes.

    Now, let's be clear, I am POSITIVE that in her real life, Ashley is a doll. But she could do with some media training. Also, it's a gift to have that natural ability to come across as humble and sweet in interviews. Just like its a gift to express your swagger. Or to project your joy of skating. Ashley just doesn't have those gifts. It doesn't make her less than a great champion, it just makes it hard to be a fan.

    I would also throw in that US skating fans don't necessarily have the chance to meet top skaters in person so you can only judge what you see on the ice. For example, let's look at the last crop of dominate American skaters - 2002 US team: Kwan was renowned for her sweet, humble nature. Sasha for her swag. Sarah for her abundant joy.

    None of these skaters were really like that: Kwan is a rock star and she's always known she's a rock star. And she always wore that like a mink coat. Sasha was just a tiny bundle of nervous energy and probably the sweetest out of the bunch. And it wasn't surprising that Sarah went on to study medicine because of her serious, exacting nature.

    I would also assume that US fans are so hungry for a champion to rival those ghosts of skating past that harsher eyes are cast on Ashley because she hasn't delivered. Which is totally unfair but the reality. Add onto that she doesn't connect well, and you get this difference of opinion among the hardcore fans.

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    So your problem is more that Ashley can't, at the moment, express either swagger or humbleness in a way that is endearing to the audience? Fair enough, this is very subjective.

    I'm not a big interview junkie, so I admit don't know too much about how Ashley comes across in those. I did watch her interview with TSL, which I thought was quite entertaining. She comes across as sassy, but also capable of self-deprecation, which I found more amusing than just a sweet PC interview. And her comments about gay rights before Sochi also made me think well of her. Whether or not you agree with her beliefs, I give credit to a person who dares to voice them, rather than just hiding behind USFSA like all the other skaters.

    After Nationals, her comments were "I just hope USFSA takes into account my record." or something like that with this expression that read as "I earned it, it's mine and I want it!!" and I just rolled my eyes.
    But she's right. She did earn it through years of good skating. They should take into account her record, and they did.

    You make an interesting point about past US skaters. I get the sense that, when Sasha first burst onto the scene, she was more of a diva figure (I mean this in a good way). But as time worn on, we all realized she was just a nervous young woman with beautiful performance skills but not enough competitive drive. As for Kwan, I remember watching one competition--can't remember which one because it was ages ago--where Michelle had to go first and then wait for all her rivals to go. In the end, she won anyway, but during the whole wait she looked like she was there for first place and first place only. I always got the sense that Michelle Kwan just hated to lose--and that was the reason for her success.

  12. #87
    Custom Title Mathman's Avatar
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    Hey Kwanfordwife, I just noticed your new custom signature. Welcome back!

    See you at the Thanksgiving Day parade (with Meryl and Charlie as grand marshals. )

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    Article: Why Ashley Wagner is Wrong about Figure Skating


  14. #89
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sandpiper View Post
    So your problem is more that Ashley can't, at the moment, express either swagger or humbleness in a way that is endearing to the audience? Fair enough, this is very subjective.

    But she's right. She did earn it through years of good skating. They should take into account her record, and they did.

    You make an interesting point about past US skaters. I get the sense that, when Sasha first burst onto the scene, she was more of a diva figure (I mean this in a good way). But as time worn on, we all realized she was just a nervous young woman with beautiful performance skills but not enough competitive drive. As for Kwan, I remember watching one competition--can't remember which one because it was ages ago--where Michelle had to go first and then wait for all her rivals to go. In the end, she won anyway, but during the whole wait she looked like she was there for first place and first place only. I always got the sense that Michelle Kwan just hated to lose--and that was the reason for her success.
    Nooo... My point is that she comes across as arrogant and she could do with some media and probably ballet training. Might as well get the whole branding piece together. And no, she didn't earn her spot to the Olympics - USFSA placed her on the team based on past performance. Earning that spot required her making the podium at Nationals. I get that you don't agree with my opinion but I stand by that.

    And honey, Michelle Kwan was always about the win.

  15. #90
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kwanford Wife View Post
    Nooo... My point is that she comes across as arrogant and she could do with some media and probably ballet training. Might as well get the whole branding piece together. And no, she didn't earn her spot to the Olympics - USFSA placed her on the team based on past performance. Earning that spot required her making the podium at Nationals. I get that you don't agree with my opinion but I stand by that. And honey, Michelle Kwan was always about the win.
    I don't think she's arrogant but I will admit she has annoyed me a few times. I think she was delightful to watch in her TSL interview, she has a fun personality. On the other hand I was kind of put off by her post Nationals and Olympic attitude. I am old school and have the belief that if you can't compete with skaters from your own country how can you compete with the world. I was aware of the criteria of past competitions being considered and knew she wasn't going to fair well at the Olympics after being happy with a bronze at the GPF, especially since Yuna, Carolina, and even Gracie didn't compete there.

    With that being said, I think her skating has some nice qualities. She is fiery skater and while she doesn't have many transitions she does have nice flow. When she is on her jumps are good, she had a great first half of the year with them. I wish Mirai had gone to Sochi and I especially think she should have went to Worlds, but I do recognize that Ashley helped gain 3 spots.

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