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Thread: Keeping/bringing back old programs

  1. #16
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    Reused programs bother me, unless a) I don't remember the original performance (Kostner this last season), or b) I privately agree with the skater(s) that the new program doesn't work (Wagner's return to S&D). I'm of the same mind as skatedreamer in thinking old programs give the skater an unfair advantage over people who skate to something new each season. Unless money is the issue, as someone mentioned before.

  2. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by surimi View Post
    Reused programs bother me, unless a) I don't remember the original performance (Kostner this last season), or b) I privately agree with the skater(s) that the new program doesn't work (Wagner's return to S&D). I'm of the same mind as skatedreamer in thinking old programs give the skater an unfair advantage over people who skate to something new each season. Unless money is the issue, as someone mentioned before.
    I don't think it's unfair at all. For example, this year I was hoping Artur would re-use his programs because I thought that maybe if he didn't have to worry about that, more focus could be put on fixing his issues. (Then he went and changed coaches and threw that theory out the window.) If a skater is not happy with their performances of one program, why shouldn't they be able to keep it for another year? Joshua never had the magic moment that Schindler's List deserved, so why not bring it again and make it shine?

  3. #18
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    I don't mind if skater keeps his program for one more season. Especially if it's a really great program. It's better than music is new but you can see almost all transition and even parts from the previous program in the "new one". For example, i never mind that Patrick Chan kept his programs. Because i understand that it's very difficult to create and train a completely new program of such level (and as for me the level of his programs is very high, what i can't say about mostly of other skaters). And sometimes the program is a real masterpiece, and you really want to see it again. For example i will be glad if Denis Ten keeps one of his program from Olympic year, because, we haven seen this programs only few times. I think his SP deserves a chance to be performed cleanly.

  4. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by karne View Post
    If a skater is not happy with their performances of one program, why shouldn't they be able to keep it for another year? Joshua never had the magic moment that Schindler's List deserved, so why not bring it again and make it shine?
    Skaters can do whatever they want. If someone wants to perfect their program 5 seasons in a row, they can. But I'm equally free to like and not like whatever I want. And I happen not to usually like when programs are brought back. :] Also, how is it not unfair when one skater uses a program they already know, and another skater opts for a new thing? Please explain. Because to me, the other skater sounds like they have a disadvantage.

  5. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by surimi View Post
    Skaters can do whatever they want. If someone wants to perfect their program 5 seasons in a row, they can. But I'm equally free to like and not like whatever I want. And I happen not to usually like when programs are brought back. :] Also, how is it not unfair when one skater uses a program they already know, and another skater opts for a new thing? Please explain. Because to me, the other skater sounds like they have a disadvantage.
    But that is the other skater's choice also. And continuing with an old program can be just as difficult as getting a new one. Imagine the pressure Jason would have faced from the judges and audiences if he'd reprised Riverdance.

  6. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by karne View Post
    But that is the other skater's choice also.
    And I'm grateful for it. If all skaters returned to old programs, FS would be quite boring. To me, if not to others. I have the deepest respect for skaters who come up with a new program each season, even if it doesn't work in the end and they have to return to the old one.

    Quote Originally Posted by karne View Post
    And continuing with an old program can be just as difficult as getting a new one. Imagine the pressure Jason would have faced from the judges and audiences if he'd reprised Riverdance.
    I am still not following. Both skaters are subject to the same pressure IMO - one needs to present it better than last season, the other is anxious if the new program would work at all. Same thing in my eyes, if not in favor of the first skater who at least knows how their program was received last year, and what to refine to make it work better. And I'm still not seeing how tweaking and perfecting something already ingrained can be compared to learning a completely new program, with even less time to prepare due to putting together music & basic structure first.

  7. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by surimi View Post
    Skaters can do whatever they want. If someone wants to perfect their program 5 seasons in a row, they can. But I'm equally free to like and not like whatever I want. And I happen not to usually like when programs are brought back. :] Also, how is it not unfair when one skater uses a program they already know, and another skater opts for a new thing? Please explain. Because to me, the other skater sounds like they have a disadvantage.
    I think everything depends on a quality of the program. Because a lot of skaters just change the music/costume and add some arm moves and final pose, but if you compare the new program to the old ones you will find that it's almost the same program and you can even see the same parts with the same steps/transitions/moves etc. Can we really call it a new program? But yes, the music will be new In this case i don't think that creating of such "new" program is much more difficult than keeping the old one.

  8. #23
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    I don't think it's unfair because all skaters have the option to not change their programs. Patrick Chan's programs are so complex that it's understandable why he prefers to change only one program per season. I can't think of any program that he's used more than 2 seasons which is perfectly acceptable. I liked Carolina's original Bolero better but she never performed it cleanly and only skated it a few times so I was glad she brought it back for the Olympics. I was also glad that Jeremy Abbott brought back his Exogenesis LP. I have to admit though as good as Yuzu's SP was, I was kind of getting bored of it.

  9. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by jennyanydots View Post
    I don't think it's unfair because all skaters have the option to not change their programs. Patrick Chan's programs are so complex that it's understandable why he prefers to change only one program per season. I can't think of any program that he's used more than 2 seasons which is perfectly acceptable. I liked Carolina's original Bolero better but she never performed it cleanly so I was glad she brought it back for the Olympics. I was also glad that Jeremy Abbott brought back his Exogenesis LP. I have to admit though as good as Yuzu's SP was, I was kind of getting bored of it.
    Didn't Chan use Take Five three seasons in a row? That was a bit much.

  10. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by karne View Post
    Didn't Chan use Take Five three seasons in a row? That was a bit much.
    He only used it for the 2010–2011 and 2011–2012 seasons. The season before that his SP was Tango de los Exilados and the season after that was Elegie in E Flat Minor. His most recent Four Seasons program was completely different for the original, different cuts and choreographer, so I don't consider that a repeat either.

  11. #26
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    I like to see new material from skaters every year, but I understand why some programs get kept for multiple seasons. I agree that sometimes shifting to old programs is a natural way to jettison a new program that isn't working as they don't have time to create a new one. I wish that Scott and Tessa would have ditched their 2014 program and went back to the Carmen free dance before Sochi.

    At least with the short dance in Ice Dancing, they change the footwork sequence every year (or every other year) so we get new material there. I also think those that keep programs for two years might be trying to grow into the program. I would get bored having to do the same music and choreo for two years, but that is just me.

  12. #27
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    I understand when a skater feels s/he has an unfinished business with a particular program and I will celebrate with him or her when the program's potential is fulfilled in congruence with the skater's potential. Sometimes, an old program is reprised after the season has started and the new program is just not working out, especially when it's an important season for the skater. Fine with me as long as it's not already been used the two preceding seasons.

    To me it's better and appreciable for a skater to reinterpret the same music, or a different version of it, than to skate all programs as if to the same music.

  13. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coltrocks12 View Post
    I like to see new material from skaters every year, but I understand why some programs get kept for multiple seasons. I agree that sometimes shifting to old programs is a natural way to jettison a new program that isn't working as they don't have time to create a new one. I wish that Scott and Tessa would have ditched their 2014 program and went back to the Carmen free dance before Sochi.

    I agree with this. Last season was an odd Olympic season in that I felt that a lot of big names had had better material earlier in the quad that would have served them better than their Olympic season programs. Wagner has stronger FS's in 2012 and 2013 and made a smart choice.. S/S had stronger programs almost the entire quad- going back to Pink Panther was smart but I was hoping they'd ressurect Pina too but scrapping 2 programs would have made them look like they were hitting the panic button. And I wanted Tessa and Scott to ditch Seasons for Carmen or even Hip Hip Chin Chin which never got a full season- although I suppose the latter wasn't really an Olympic moment program. I think in the case of Tessa and Scott, they knew Seasons had issues but scrapping would it have been like an admission that they had fallen behind Davis & White and were scrambling. In the end, they did the best they could and the performance in Sochi was by far its best outing.

  14. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coltrocks12 View Post
    I would get bored having to do the same music and choreo for two years, but that is just me.
    I remember whenever we had the thread after Worlds about the 'Casual Fan' and someone mentioned their friend was a casual fan and asked the fact that skaters do the same program all year long. I think it would hurt the fanbase if we started seeing a lot of skaters repeat music.

  15. #30
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    I prefer not to see skaters reuse programs, & I do find situations like Chan's a little ridiculous - yes he has complex choreography & transitions, but so do Takahashi or Abbott & recently Machida, and they for the most part have had new programs every year. However, choreographers are expensive, & that explains why sometimes skaters don't change their programs. Brezina for example said he reused his free skate in 2011-12 and 2012-13 so he would have the money for a good choreographer for the Olympic season instead. That kind of consideration is more understandable for me than the rationale for Chan not changing his program.

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