Women Skating Stars

^Really? Now we're getting into the realms of philosophy, but if I were a skater, I wouldn't find that the best compliment. I'd prefer, "She left behind beautiful, timeless performances." Because in the end, kindness can only touch so many people, unless you're raising huge masses of money for a charity or something. Only art remains.

IMHO kindness touches everyone. Ripples on the pond, a dream of a better world -- that sort of thing.

Ha, maybe I'm just too cynical. Several years ago I probably would've agreed with you. But for me, personally, it's Michelle's performances that have touched me, not anything she did off the ice (as far as I know).

karne said:

So, what do you think of your precious little Kovtun's latest little moment on Twitter?

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I'm going to Rate this PG-13 and put it right here. Not for the kiddies :no:

http://cs617421.vk.me/v617421933/115b0/-xL1Zkox1i4.jpg

Mathman said:

There is no law requiring athletes, movie stars, etc., to be role models. Still...

Here is the best thing anyone ever said about Michelle Kwan (or anyone):

"She lived her whole life as if a child were watching."

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This is beautiful..

I think if more Japanese comment on internet Japanese skaters would look popular, if more Americans comment on the internet for American skaters American skaters would, Russians would speak for Russian skaters, Koreans would for the Queen and her successors.

Sandpiper said:

Ha, maybe I'm just too cynical. Several years ago I probably would've agreed with you. But for me, personally, it's Michelle's performances that have touched me, not anything she did off the ice (as far as I know).

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As it happens, Michelle has also left us timeless skating.

But in terms of kindness not having an impact, if you take the broad view as a citizen of the world, every good act adds something to the world. You can decide not to look at skaters that way, of course. In terms of whether that is an important aspect of athletes in general, I'd say that they have such an audience in the world that their behavior off the field (or the ice) does make a difference. In the larger sports world, one can consider Kenyan runner Kip Keino, whose speed records have probably long been exceeded, but his work running a charity for orphans in his country has an ongoing impact. Likewise for Andre Agassi, who opened a charter school for at-risk children in the Las Vegas area. In skating, Viktor Petrenko once befriended a seriously injured American pairs skater, Katie Wood, who was in a Russian hospital, where sanitation was not the best (used sheets and even used needles). In those days, Russians/Soviets who traveled abroad bought their own hospital supplies to keep in case of an emergency. Petrenko brought some of his carefully hoarded supplies to the hospital to give the skater. He also acted as interpreter for her in the hospital, I believe. Since then he has raised funds for a children's hospital in the Ukraine. I think we can agree that these athletes have touched a wide group of people by more than their athletic achievements.

I don't think it's idealistic or naive to point this out or to look for it in sports figures. In fact, I think it's essential, and very practical, because this is one way that life on our chaotic planet can be brought to a somewhat higher level.

I always pick the wrong skaters. I am old enough to remember and love Dorothy Hamill, but my first love was Tiffany Chin. Then she fizzled and then I was a major fan of Debi Thomas because she was black and skated to Relax and I liked her attitude, with school and dealing with racism in the sport. Then it was Jill Treachary. I couldn't help it, she was gorgeous and she had a snippy attitude. Harding for maybe two seasons, but she was a real pill in person. If there were any excuses on her part about people not liking her, it was mostly her own doing. She was rude to FANS who only wished her good luck. I like bitchiness, but she was just nasty. Then of course Nicole Bobek at Nationals in 1993. I still love that SP. I think I gave up on my ability to pick star skaters after Bobek because it was the kiss of death.

I'm not really sure arrogance is such a bad thing. I loved Ashley Wagner's interview with Jenny and Dave, it made me like her even more. Of course if you have world class skills you are entitled to some arrogance. It's a fine line. You need to be likable but confident.

I was always neutral to Yamaguchi and Kwan because they were so vanilla. They were obviously raised well with good manners, but then throw in the media training where it's just same old same old, I lost interest. I started liking Yamaguchi during her pro years. She was for years the best skater on the planet while she was pro, even better than Kwan. IMO.

I know what you mean by feeling as if you were the kiss of death. The years I rooted for someone at the Olympics, only to watch someone else win. But look at someone like Janet Lynn, who didn't even manage Debi Thomas's international record (Lynn never won a world championship), but she's considered one of the true greats of all time.

I was also a fan of Debi Thomas, for all the reasons you mention, and also because her skating was so fluid and powerful. I think we chose pretty well. The fact that she imploded at the Olympics under whatever extra stress she felt doesn't lessen the beauty of her skating, which I've always preferred to Witt's. Thomas was a good champion and a great role model, and she still is.

The day I most felt like a jinx was the day I read that Michelle had "fired" Frank Carroll. I thought that she was so on track to win in Salt Lake City, and then she did that out-of-left-field thing (still unexplainable to me), which was guaranteed to jeopardize her chances. I came close to vowing that I'd never root for anyone again. But then came Mao, and YuNa...it's incurable, I guess.

@Olympia
Oh, I'm not saying kindness is totally useless, or that people who believe in kindness are ignorant/naive. In fact, I said "I am probably just too cynical."

In my original post, I mentioned that "donating loads to charity" is one way to make a huge impact with kindness. And I've heard of that story about Viktor Petrenko! Very heartwarming, and I admit it made me like him more, despite my best cold-hearted attempts at looking at only what's on the ice.

My point is twofold: One, I don't think we were all born to donate millions to charity or to find the cure to cancer. Perhaps some of us are born to write stories that make people weep, or leave behind beautiful performances on the ice that will not be forgotten. Who is to say that these are less worthwhile pursuits? Basically, I don't think someone who "lived her whole life as if a child were watching" is necessarily the greatest contributor to humanity. Of course, some may disagree. Some may think their kindly next-door-neighbour is worth a thousand Shakespeares. That's fine, agree to disagree.

Two, I guess I've lost my patience for "everyday niceness." PC interviews, no swearing in front of children, never losing your temper, ect. Wonderful qualities if you can pull them off (YMMV on PC interviews ), but I don't feel like these are worthwhile things to aim for. I couldn't care less if a skater adheres to these rules (within reason).

Op was some skaters lose points like Ashley for outspokenness. Huge double standard in fs. Always.

Sandpiper said:

Basically, I don't think someone who "lived her whole life as if a child were watching" is necessarily the greatest contributor to humanity.

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Michelle at Feinstein Elementary School.

https://twitter.com/MichelleWKwan/status/456491131878928386/photo/1

Michelle at Reading Day at Sacket Elementary.

https://twitter.com/graduatepvd/status/456498268470378497/photo/1

Michelle at Holliman Elementary.

https://twitter.com/MichelleWKwan/status/456148508651692033/photo/1

http://www.warwickonline.com/stories/Kwan-stresses-importance-of-hard-work-at-Holliman-visit,91819

Michelle at Special Olympics event at Portsmuth High School.

https://twitter.com/MichelleWKwan/status/456209973098606593/photo/1

Michelle at Tiverton High School for the Special Olympics

https://twitter.com/MichelleWKwan/status/456202528217395200/photo/1

Michelle at East Providence High School career week.

https://twitter.com/MichelleWKwan/status/456120395314495489/photo/1

https://twitter.com/TheCookieRojas/status/456076252139753472/photo/1

Michelle takes her husband along to Veasy Street Elementary.

https://twitter.com/ClayPell/status/456086723693649920/photo/1

Michelle at Centerdale Elemantary School.

https://twitter.com/MichelleWKwan/status/456845123230633984/photo/1

A thank you card from a student.

https://twitter.com/MichelleWKwan/status/457194817349767168/photo/1

Michelle at George Peters Elementary School.

https://twitter.com/MichelleWKwan/status/461891478311419904/photo/1

http://www.cranstononline.com/stori...-Kwan-encourages-students-to-have-goals,92492

Michelle at Baily Elementary School.

https://twitter.com/MichelleWKwan/status/461940676050296832/photo/1

Michelle and Clay in the Walk to School Parade in protest of inadequate school bus service in Newport.

https://twitter.com/MichelleWKwan/status/464780026203090945/photo/1

Michelle and Clay visit Pell School (named after Clay’s grandfather, Senator Pell of Pell Grant fame).

https://www.facebook.com/NewportThisWeek02840/posts/654582341264138

Michelle at Lincoln Lower School.

https://twitter.com/Lincoln1884/status/464818561605988352/photo/1

Michelle honored at Figure Skating Club of Harlem

https://twitter.com/lishaepperson/status/464785345872408576/photo/1

Michelle judges senior projects at North Smithfield High School.

https://twitter.com/MichelleWKwan/status/467030607068139520/photo/1

Michelle at Riverside Middle School.

https://twitter.com/MichelleWKwan/status/467431880803876867/photo/1

Michelle at Engelwood Highland School.

http://instagram.com/p/oTVFOdhIL2/

Michelle judges more senior projects, this one at Westerly High School.

http://instagram.com/p/oWOLf1BINJ/

Graduation speaker at Johnston High School.

http://www.turnto10.com/story/25651...o-welcome-olympian-kwan-as-graduation-speaker

Michelle at Career day at a Western Hills Middle School.

http://www.cranstononline.com/stori...=4&content_class=1&town_id=3&sub_type=stories

Well, I think I’ll stop. These are some of Michelle’s school related activities for April, May, and June. In addition she did numerous appearances for local non-profit and charitable organizations in Rhode Island, besides her political activities. She donated private skating lessons to be raffled off twice, plus a lunch for two with Michelle, for local worthy causes.

https://twitter.com/InspireMindsRI/status/476082211293495296/photo/1

I doubt if any of these children have ever seen Michelle skate. Will any these school visits make a difference in someone’s life.? Probably not. Still…

"Brighten the corner where you are,
"Brighten the corner where you are!
"Someone far from harbor you may guide across the bar, so
"Brighten the corner
"Where you are.

PS. Her efforts are not always applauded, though. During the address at one of the high schools a student tweeted, while her talk was in progress: "This is boring. She is talking to us like we just graduated from Brown (an elite university in the same city), when all we did was make it through high school." (Think about it. dude. )

skateluvr said:

Op was some skaters lose points like Ashley for outspokenness. Huge double standard in fs. Always.

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Sorry for going off topic, skateluvr.

No, I don't think Ashley is penalized for being outspoken. Judging from the majority of posts on this thread, quite the contrary. Fans like it. As for judges and skating officials, no, I don't think they care either.

Are outspoken gentlemen criticized more than outspoken ladies in figure skating. Again, judging by this thread it is the "outspokernness" of athletes like Kovtun, Plushenko, and Chan that have come up for discussion. Some people like them, others wish they would shut up and just skate. You pay your money and you take your vhoice, I guess.

I liked this one the best!

Michelle judges more senior projects, this one at Westerly High School.

http://instagram.com/p/oWOLf1BINJ/

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In her words

michellewkwan
Holy Cow! Checking out the senior projects at Westerly High School.

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Her efforts are not always applauded, though. During the address at one of the high schools a student tweeted, while her talk was in progress: "This is boring. She is talking to us like we just graduated from Brown (an elite university in the same city), when all we did was make it through high school."

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Well, the hallmark of a good person is someone who does good deeds regardless of whether they're appreciated or rewarded. (That's why I don't care for PC interviews, if I sense that the person isn't sincere). Michelle should not feel crestfallen because of one dumb kid.

Again, judging by this thread it is the "outspokernness" of athletes like Kovtun, Plushenko, and Chan that have come up for discussion.

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Er... I think there is a fair amount of difference between Chan's "My job is to put out something beautiful, not to discuss my scores" or Plushenko's "Yes, I did enough to win" versus Kovtun's "Russian fans are whores." (Still, even with Kovtun, my biggest problem with him is that I find his skating boring).

@Mathman - I think all those fall under "campaigning for husband's election".

Olympia said:

I haven't watched that movie in awhile, but I just love it. Costner and Robbins are such great foils for each other, and Sarandon is exquisite.

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Best sports movie ever! That speech ... long hot slow kisses that last for three days. ::sigh::
That screenplay is one for the time capsule.

lilahozi said:

@Mathman - I think all those fall under "campaigning for husband's election".

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Two birds with one stone. Save the world one child at a time, and win an election, too.

I kinda wish GS would remove Kwan from their Twitter feed bc of the endless political tweets and retweets. (Esp annoying bc I hate her political views)

YLFan said:

I kinda wish GS would remove Kwan from their Twitter feed bc of the endless political tweets and retweets. (Esp annoying bc I hate her political views)

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Michelle Kwan's political views are, "I am an athlete, not a politician." Her work for the State Department consists of speaking to groups of children around the world emphasizing the virtues of setting goals, of working hard to achieve them, and, if you fall, of picking yourself up with renewed dedication and perseverance. What part of that message do you "hate"?

Michelle has served bi-partisanly under two presidents, Republican George Bush and Democrat Barack Obama. She has served under three Secretaries of State, Republican Dr. Condoleezza Rice (Michele's first mentor and sponsor) and Democrats Hilary Clinton and John Kerry. You may not like any of these politicians, but that's not Michelle's fault.

To prove my point, here are children portraying their heroes at the Third Grade Wax Museum (Springfield, Illinois) -- Michelle Kwan and Ronald Reagan. :yes:

http://www.sps186.org/images/photos_large2/1/158743_244087_1301967710.jpg

And here is the real Michelle, campaigning for her husband.

http://o1.aolcdn.com/dims-shared/di...torage/patch/d4d18862f5c154e164def559a1280290

She's not so enthusiastic, however, about kissing former president Jimmie Carter -- but she managed a better face than Maria Butyrskaia, who was no doubt still mad at Carter for boycotting the 1980 Olympics in Moscow.

http://www.tribuneindia.com/1998/98aug03/0203b.jpg