2014-15 Grand Prix assignments

Mrs. P · Jul 1, 2014

Sam-Skwantch said:
I agree completely. I love what a well rounded fully developed skater brings but that said....the excitement of watching a young skater seemingly defy the natural evolution most of us are bound to is really exciting. 15 yr olds at my rink just don't seem to process freakish skills. I love my locals doing their thing but I think seeing what their capable of and someone like Lip or Radinova are capable of at such a young age blows all of my circuits. I think there is room for both in this sport and to me it's just more

I think they can co-exist! I mean Yuna and Mao were once teenage upstarts.

This (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BfFDratp4_Q) and This ( https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xm9F-lSuArQ) are both memorable.

Mathman · Jul 2, 2014

YLFan said:
I think the sport is evolving younger. A lot of these girls will retire around 19. Most of the older skaters will be from feds with a weak developmental system.

I don't think this is anything new. Skaters have always retired around 19-20. Several won world championships in their young teens. (Sonja Henie 14, Carol Heiss 16, Oksana Baiul 15, Tara Lipinski 14, Kimmie Meissner 16.)

FSGMT · Jul 2, 2014

Mathman said:
I don't think this is anything new. Skaters have always retired around 19-20. Several won world championships in their young teens. (Sonja Henie 14, Carol Heiss 16, Oksana Baiul 15, Tara Lipinski 14, Kimmie Meissner 16.)

Exactly! Until the 90s when Butyrskaya, Witt, Chen, Kwan and others started to change things (because you didn't have to retire in order to have good professional opportunities), most of the top female skaters used to retire before becoming 20 (I think about Fleming, Hamill, Potzsch and then the ones you included)

AlexRus · Jul 2, 2014

Mathman said:
I don't think this is anything new. Skaters have always retired around 19-20. Several won world championships in their young teens. (Sonja Henie 14, Carol Heiss 16, Oksana Baiul 15, Tara Lipinski 14, Kimmie Meissner 16.)

Elena Vodorezova at 12 was at Euro, Olympics and Worlds (1976). Good results of FS, not so good total (she was "FS-skater", other parts was not so good as FS).
She retired being 18.

Dorothy Hamill, who won that Olympics, retired at 19.

papa · Jul 2, 2014

karne said:
Newsflash:

Nobody, ever, no matter who they are, has the same body at 19 as they had at 15.

The body of a grown woman at 19 will NEVER be the same as the body of a child of 15.

This applies to everyone: Yulia, Polina, Anna, Elena and all.

It is not "dissing" a skater's talent to point this out.

Please, stop it... :biggrin:

You know very well you guys don't confine yourselves to "pointing it out".
It's "until she gets hips, she ain't no champion to me" attitude - this forum is flooded with it.

If it lasts, in the long run it will kill the sport.
Change the rules or respect them.

phaeljones · Jul 2, 2014

papa said:
Please, stop it...
You know very well you guys don't confine yourselves to "pointing it out".
It's "until she gets hips, she ain't no champion to me" attitude - this forum is flooded with it.

If it lasts, in the long run it will kill the sport.
Change the rules or respect them.

Hmmm. For the skaters, live and let live. Same for the fans. Some people prefer one category of skater over the other. That is fair even without the change in rules.

Body issues are a sensitive issue and so are the skating styles, which are affected by body issues and have to take those body issues into consideration. There is a brutal harshness to any sport that affords only a very short window in a pre-adult period rendering people of an age outside of that window non-competitive just as it would be to exclude anyone because of their age or talent. The more styles that the sport can handle, the more body types that can participate, the greater and richer the sport will be. BUT: It is an issue that need be recognized and discussed (bluntly as Karne has done) for that to happen.

papa · Jul 2, 2014

My point is not about preference, it's about respect and acknowledgement.

I don't know any other sport where champions would be so disrespected and diminished because of their age.
Huge group of basketball fans may hate and wish all the worst to LeBron James, but they respect him and acknowledge as NBA champion, same with Tiger Woods in golf, Cristiano Ronaldo in football, teenage girl-champions in tennis, etc..
Without high level of acceptance and respect towards young champions and stars, competition and titles have no sense really and ladies figure skating itself may become perceived as a freakshow.

nam57 · Jul 2, 2014

Did I miss Vanessa Lam withdrawing? She is no longer on the USFS reserve envelope?

96skiluvr · Jul 2, 2014

nam57 said:
Did I miss Vanessa Lam withdrawing? She is no longer on the USFS reserve envelope?

What? When did Lam withdraw?

Chemistry66 · Jul 2, 2014

96skiluvr said:
What? When did Lam withdraw?

Vanessa Lam did not withdraw, at least as of yet. They posted the new US Team Envelopes recently and Lam, who was on the reserve team last season, is not on it this season.

AlexRus · Jul 2, 2014

Chemistry66 said:
Vanessa Lam did not withdraw, at least as of yet. They posted the new US Team Envelopes recently and Lam, who was on the reserve team last season, is not on it this season.

And she is not at ISP.
How can it be? Only skaters in ISP may get Internationals.

humbaba · Jul 2, 2014

I see no harm in discussing what is an unavoidable fact of life for skaters. Every skater's body will change as they get older. Every skater must strive to adjust to these changes. Some will succeed in maintaining their skill level, some will actually improve, and some will not be able to adjust and their performance will suffer.

And it is not just the body that changes. Skaters mature as people too and their skating should reflect that. Currently, Julia Lip is very beguiling as the sad waif. But if she were still doing sad waif programs at 18 or 20, I would be disappointed.

One of the pleasures of following figure skating is watching the skaters grow and change. We discuss these issues because it's hard not to speculate about the looming inevitable and also because watching the skaters mature, change, and often surprise us, is part of what makes the sport enjoyable and interesting.

aromaticchicken · Jul 2, 2014

+1 for sad waif

But seriously, I'll be thrilled beyond all measure to see Yulia and Polina continue to skate with the technical jump ability they have over many years, if they can keep it up. I may be skeptical whether that's possible, but I hope they can!

Also, since we're on the topic sort of, the PCS values of some of these young skaters are suspiciously high..

snowflake · Jul 2, 2014

Really happy for Anne Line (NOR) qualifying for GP :clap:

'Norway has for the first time qualified for Grand Prix. Anne Line Gjersem is invited to Cup of China in November. Congratulations to her and Norwegian Art-Skating' :thumbsup:

Sam-Skwantch · Jul 2, 2014

snowflake said:
Congratulations to her and Norwegian Art-Skating' :thumbsup:

This!! Congrats.

Sandpiper · Jul 2, 2014

I think the skating world should be able to accommodate both kinds of skaters: the wispy little girl and the mature twenty-something woman. I'm fine with any type of lady as long as she sells her programs well.

Regarding the new age limit: I'm not against making the age limit consistent across all levels of competition. I do feel it was introduced to stem the large influx of talent from Russia, considering the timing... but just because it was done for the wrong reasons, doesn't mean the actual action was wrong. However, I see the other side as well: youngsters should be able to test themselves out in the GP, so it also makes sense to make the GP limit lower than the Olympics one.

Isabel_O'Reilly · Jul 2, 2014

humbaba said:
I see no harm in discussing what is an unavoidable fact of life for skaters. Every skater's body will change as they get older. Every skater must strive to adjust to these changes. Some will succeed in maintaining their skill level, some will actually improve, and some will not be able to adjust and their performance will suffer.

And it is not just the body that changes. Skaters mature as people too and their skating should reflect that. Currently, Julia Lip is very beguiling as the sad waif. But if she were still doing sad waif programs at 18 or 20, I would be disappointed.

One of the pleasures of following figure skating is watching the skaters grow and change. We discuss these issues because it's hard not to speculate about the looming inevitable and also because watching the skaters mature, change, and often surprise us, is part of what makes the sport enjoyable and interesting.

But she's already started to change and grow. I was watching some of her older programs especially after skyfly posted the youtube link of her FS at the 2010 Rus Nats and no one can tell me that she has not grown and changed. Maybe not in a way that some people like which of course is going to happen but to me the difference is like JME singing at eight or nine before AGT, at AGT, and how she just performed at the Memorial day concert or her cover of Rains of Castamere a couple of year later. (You do have to take into account the quality of the recordings but still the difference is unbelievable.)

Somewhere over the rainbow (8) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=96FuWn-JEEg
Somewhere (14) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qc_JyFTVewc
Rains Of Castamere (14) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VbuztvFQOJc

This is the growth I've seen in in Yulia in just two years. At the 2012 JWorlds there was just something captivating about her skating, now she's growing into that potential. That's why some like her skating, not just because she's a "sad, waif". Do people keep coming up with these terms that are guaranteed to make us jump to show you what can be good about her skating, because it sounds very much like a politer way of insulting/denigarting her on purpose?

On a different note I can't wait to see Jason's FS at SA http://www.mediafire.com/watch/l8c4pavspg1hhhc/Jason_Tristan_and_Iseult.avi

Sam-Skwantch · Jul 2, 2014

Somewhere over the rainbow (8) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=96FuWn-JEEg
Somewhere (14) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qc_JyFTVewc

Is it even fair for fully mature and grown up women to have to share the stage with such young girls? Shouldn't she be singing on Nickelodeon or something...hello. Anyways....her voice is going to have to change soon. It's so obvious it's only going to get worse.

Discussing growth is one thing but people casting doom seem to be doing so just to provide rain on the parade. Yulia has always been a little odd wonder. Wouldn't be surprised one bit if she was in this aspect too. *fingers crossed for all young ladies TBH....it's good for the sport when the rising stars shine**

All snarcasm aside...I'm really happy with the GP assignments overall. There are some good match ups ahead :popcorn:

I love C/L but Russian Ice Dancing..... :popcorn:

Go I/Z :yes:

papa · Jul 2, 2014

Sam-Skwantch said:
Is it even fair for fully mature and grown up women to have to share the stage with such young girls? Shouldn't she be singing on Nickelodeon or something...hello. Anyways....her voice is going to have to change soon. It's so obvious it's only going to get worse.

:agree:

Isabel_O'Reilly · Jul 2, 2014

Sam-Skwantch said:
Is it even fair for fully mature and grown up women to have to share the stage with such young girls? Shouldn't she be singing on Nickelodeon or something...hello. Anyways....her voice is going to have to change soon. It's so obvious it's only going to get worse.

Discussing growth is one thing but people casting doom seem to be doing so just to provide rain on the parade. Yulia has always been a little odd wonder. Wouldn't be surprised one bit if she was in this aspect too. *fingers crossed for all young ladies TBH....it's good for the sport when the rising stars shine**

All snarcasm aside...I'm really happy with the GP assignments overall. There are some good match ups ahead

I love C/L but Russian Ice Dancing..... Go I/Z :yes:

Jackie never shares the stage. (Just kidding.)

That's exactly what I'm getting at. The same way people have been insulting and and predicting Yulia will grow and lose her jumps, and even if this happened does anyone really think Yulia wouldn't be able to fight through it?, people have been insulting Jackie Evancho. They say stuff like she's copying someone else (although when asked for a link so other people can go watch this paragon they can never produce it, she's wrecking her voice (2010), she's going to wreck her voice(2011), she's going to wreck her voice(2012), she's going to wreck her voice(2013), she will lose her voice eventually(2014). Notice a pattern?

They also say she's not singing like an opera singer. (x30) She's not supposed to sing like an opera singer, she's in the classical crossover genre. After five years of high-level singing, of incredible experiences, and great success people are still trying to denigrate her, just like they do to anyone else like Yulia who has also achieved incredible things. When anyone younger than people or their favorites show more potential or talent or achieves notable success people try to tear them down. (Or they insist they'll fail and lose something that gives their life meaning. It's mean-spirited and it probably won't happen. So they just end up looking like fools. If the worst comes then gloat about until then just hold your peace.

I'll stay on the topic of skating now. :slink:

Yes there's more than a few interesting match-ups. I can't wait to see Yulia and Elena at TEB. It will be an epic showdown for the Gold and Silver. By that point we'll know that they're both going to the GPF, so whoever win at TEB better watch out for the other. :popcorn:

2014-15 Grand Prix assignments

Mrs. P

Uno, Dos, twizzle!

Mathman

FSGMT

AlexRus

papa

Match Penalty

phaeljones

papa

Match Penalty

nam57

96skiluvr

Chemistry66

Mmmmm, tacos.

AlexRus

humbaba

aromaticchicken

snowflake

I enjoy what I like

Sam-Skwantch

“I solemnly swear I’m up to no good”

Sandpiper

Isabel_O'Reilly

Sam-Skwantch

“I solemnly swear I’m up to no good”

papa

Match Penalty

Isabel_O'Reilly

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