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Thread: 2014-15 Grand Prix assignments

  1. #271
    Currently frozen as a popsicle Chemistry66's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Isabel_O'Reilly View Post
    Why do you have to be so rude? I mean it's obvious they changed the age this year to stop the influx of talent, particularly from certain countries but that remark was just uncalled for. It's not like you were talking to someone and something slipped out without meaning to. You could have considered what you said before you posted. If I didn't figuratively choke back most of the things I wished to say I would have been banned for many of my remarks.

    And the only mention was of the sudden change for the SGP so don't start putting words in peoples mouth about the age for the JGP. Also you shouldn't use "Russian jumping beans" when we can tell you're just using it to try and dismiss the pure talent that's coming.
    I think they actually changed it so the ages would be uniform across the board for Senior ISU Championships like Euros/4CC/Worlds/Olympics rather than 14 year olds doing SGP and then Junior Worlds.

  2. #272
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    I much prefer LADIES on the GP-not prepubescent girls.
    It's unfair for a lady of 21 to compete with a string bean that hasn't hit puberty yet. I wouldn't mind an age of 16 and up.
    The 14 y/o's can do the JGP.
    I think it's good there is an age limit. If they are meant to skate with the ladies, they'll skate with the ladies.
    I think it's good to make them wait until they are 15 just like at Worlds and the Olympics. If they are that good they can wait another year and if puberty gets them well that's how it goes. I for one as glad not to see 4'7 65lbs little girls on the Senior GP.
    Because they have the frigging JUNIOR GRAND PRIX for a reason? What next, are you going to start whinging that the minimum age of 13 for the JGP is totally cruel and it should be lowered to 10 so the baby Russian jumping beans can go on it?
    If figure skating is such a physically peculiar sport, wouldn't it be logical and fair for athletes and fans to create two different disciplines then:
    - adult figure skating (with age+ limit) for viewers who like watching grown-up skaters only, irked by "jumping beans",
    - open figure skating (without age limits) for viewers who like watching simply the best skaters, no matter if 12 or 30yo?
    (Of course plus strict monitoring and life-long ban for every coach/school/fed proved messing with children growth/health issues)
    Junior competitions could stay the same as they are.

    Everybody's happy and live happily ever after, right?

  3. #273
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    Quote Originally Posted by papa View Post
    If figure skating is such a physically peculiar sport, wouldn't it be logical and fair for athletes and fans to create two different disciplines then:
    - adult figure skating (with age+ limit) for viewers who like watching grown-up skaters only, irked by "jumping beans",
    - open figure skating (without age limits) for viewers who like watching simply the best skaters, no matter if 12 or 30yo?
    (Of course plus strict monitoring and life-long ban for every coach/school/fed proved messing with children growth/health issues)
    Junior competitions could stay the same as they are.

    Everybody's happy and live happily ever after, right?
    Is it needed?

    Let us see JrWorlds Champions from 2009 to 2014.
    2009 - Alena Leonova, she had not 3+3 combo. After that she earned very good 3T+3T and became World Silver Medalist. Progressed much after being JrWorld Champion.
    2009 3rd place - Ashley Wagner. No doubt became really stronger being more mature.
    2010 - Kanako Murakami. Also became better being more mature.
    2011 - Adelina Sotnikova. Her skating at Olympics-2014 was very good, much better than at any competition before (somebody may tell that she doesn't deserve gold medal, but no doubt she deserves medal of Olympics).
    2011 2nd place - Elizaveta Tuktamysheva. Also skated better being more mature.
    2012 - Julia Lipnitskaia. At season 2013-2014 (GP Skate Canada, GP Final, Team Event Olympics) skated really better than at that JrWorlds.
    2012 2nd place - Gracie Gold. No doubt progressed after that JrWorlds.
    2013 and 2014 - Elena Radionova. She was better at 14 than at 13, also at 13 than at 12 and so on.

    So what we see? Young Ladies who were most successful in Junors are better when are elder.
    Yes, of course not all the Young Ladies become very good Senior Ladies - but it is sports, some retirement is normal.

    I don't see problem at all.
    If young age would give advantage, we would see many 14-years-old Ladies at GP and many 15-years-old at Worlds.
    But at GP-2011 were only Sotnikova and Tuktamysheva, GP-2012 - Lipnitskaia, GP2013 - Radionova of that age.
    At Worlds situation is about the same. At 2014 were three 15-years-old girls (Lipnitskaia, Pogorilaya, Edmunds) - and who can say that they are not good enough in all aspects for Worlds?
    Past some seasons (after Olympics-2010) I don't remember at Worlds youngsters with really high results.
    Some years ago at Worlds were youngsters Kostner, Ando, Asada, Kim. They all were good and became better when were more mature.

    Maybe, youngsters show very good results because they are very good skaters? (so good that not at any year may exist)
    And at most they become better being more mature?

  4. #274
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    Quote Originally Posted by AlexRus View Post
    At Worlds situation is about the same. At 2014 were three 15-years-old girls (Lipnitskaia, Pogorilaya, Edmunds) - and who can say that they are not good enough in all aspects for Worlds?
    With all the respect - do you read the forum?
    Seriously, haven't you noticed huge group of skating fans dissing every young girl skater that achieves some success?
    Every single 13,14,15 women winner/champion/medalist has been constantly diminished and disrespected by them using two magical words:
    maturity - noone exactly defined what it is yet, except that for sure NO 13-15yo HAS IT!
    growth spurt - noone exactly knows how much it'll affect the skater, except for sure in year or two IT WILL CRUSH ALL THE BLOODY RUSSIANS!

    There is big group of fans that don't want prepubescent skaters on senior ice - as you see above, they even say their presence is unfair(!) to other grown-up skaters. Imagine how do they feel when such "jumping bean" wins!
    If there is no common respect for champions amongst the fans, the sport will not progress. It's really unusual and harmful situation for integrity of the sport.

    Change the rules or acknowledge them.

  5. #275
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  6. #276
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    Quote Originally Posted by papa View Post
    With all the respect - do you read the forum?
    Seriously, haven't you noticed huge group of skating fans dissing every young girl skater that achieves some success?
    Every single 13,14,15 women winner/champion/medalist has been constantly diminished and disrespected by them using two magical words:
    maturity - noone exactly defined what it is yet, except that for sure NO 13-15yo HAS IT!
    grow spurth - noone exactly knows how much it'll affect the skater, except for sure in year or two IT WILL CRUSH ALL THE BLOODY RUSSIANS!

    There is big group of fans that don't want prepubescent skaters on senior ice - as you see above, they even say their presence is unfair(!) to other grown-up skaters. Imagine how do they feel when such "jumping bean" wins!
    If there is no common respect for champions amongst the fans, the sport will not progress. It's really unusual and harmful situation for integrity of the sport.

    Change the rules or acknowledge them.
    True, there is a huge group that is dissing every young lady that dares to compete at seniors, but then there is also another huge group that appreciates talent. by the way, have you also noticed that the same people who are calling Lipnitskaya and Pogorilaya pre-pubescebnt girls, suddenly turn around 180 degrees when suddenly USA had their own prepubescent Polina? So one wonder whether it is more about envy and nationality of the skater, rather than about the fact that some skater is younger than others.

  7. #277
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    Newsflash:

    Nobody, ever, no matter who they are, has the same body at 19 as they had at 15.

    The body of a grown woman at 19 will NEVER be the same as the body of a child of 15.

    This applies to everyone: Yulia, Polina, Anna, Elena and all.

    It is not "dissing" a skater's talent to point this out.

    It is also not "dissing" a skater to observe that their jump technique is already dodgy before any of this additional growth takes place.

  8. #278
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    I think the sport is evolving younger. A lot of these girls will retire around 19. Most of the older skaters will be from feds with a weak developmental system.

  9. #279
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    I hope that isn't the case. I happen to like some of the older skaters. If girls retired at 19, we wouldn't have seen Yuna's Les Mis in 2013, Carolina's Bolero, Mao's Rachmaninov in 2014 and so on and so on.

  10. #280
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mrs. P View Post
    I hope that isn't the case. I happen to like some of the older skaters. If girls retired at 19, we wouldn't have seen Yuna's Les Mis in 2013, Carolina's Bolero, Mao's Rachmaninov in 2014 and so on and so on.
    I agree completely. I love what a well rounded fully developed skater brings but that said....the excitement of watching a young skater seemingly defy the natural evolution most of us are bound to is really exciting. 15 yr olds at my rink just don't seem to possess freakish skills. I love my locals doing their thing but I think seeing what they're capable of and someone like Lip or Radinova are capable of at such a young age blows all of my circuits. I think there is room for both in this sport and to me it's just more

  11. #281
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sam-Skwantch View Post
    I agree completely. I love what a well rounded fully developed skater brings but that said....the excitement of watching a young skater seemingly defy the natural evolution most of us are bound to is really exciting. 15 yr olds at my rink just don't seem to process freakish skills. I love my locals doing their thing but I think seeing what their capable of and someone like Lip or Radinova are capable of at such a young age blows all of my circuits. I think there is room for both in this sport and to me it's just more
    I think they can co-exist! I mean Yuna and Mao were once teenage upstarts.

    This (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BfFDratp4_Q) and This ( https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xm9F-lSuArQ) are both memorable.

  12. #282
    Custom Title Mathman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by YLFan View Post
    I think the sport is evolving younger. A lot of these girls will retire around 19. Most of the older skaters will be from feds with a weak developmental system.
    I don't think this is anything new. Skaters have always retired around 19-20. Several won world championships in their young teens. (Sonja Henie 14, Carol Heiss 16, Oksana Baiul 15, Tara Lipinski 14, Kimmie Meissner 16.)
    Last edited by Mathman; 07-02-2014 at 12:21 AM.

  13. #283
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mathman View Post
    I don't think this is anything new. Skaters have always retired around 19-20. Several won world championships in their young teens. (Sonja Henie 14, Carol Heiss 16, Oksana Baiul 15, Tara Lipinski 14, Kimmie Meissner 16.)
    Exactly! Until the 90s when Butyrskaya, Witt, Chen, Kwan and others started to change things (because you didn't have to retire in order to have good professional opportunities), most of the top female skaters used to retire before becoming 20 (I think about Fleming, Hamill, Potzsch and then the ones you included)

  14. #284
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mathman View Post
    I don't think this is anything new. Skaters have always retired around 19-20. Several won world championships in their young teens. (Sonja Henie 14, Carol Heiss 16, Oksana Baiul 15, Tara Lipinski 14, Kimmie Meissner 16.)
    Elena Vodorezova at 12 was at Euro, Olympics and Worlds (1976). Good results of FS, not so good total (she was "FS-skater", other parts was not so good as FS).
    She retired being 18.

    Dorothy Hamill, who won that Olympics, retired at 19.

  15. #285
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    Quote Originally Posted by karne View Post
    Newsflash:

    Nobody, ever, no matter who they are, has the same body at 19 as they had at 15.

    The body of a grown woman at 19 will NEVER be the same as the body of a child of 15.

    This applies to everyone: Yulia, Polina, Anna, Elena and all.

    It is not "dissing" a skater's talent to point this out.
    Please, stop it...
    You know very well you guys don't confine yourselves to "pointing it out".
    It's "until she gets hips, she ain't no champion to me" attitude - this forum is flooded with it.

    If it lasts, in the long run it will kill the sport.
    Change the rules or respect them.

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