Page 1 of 9 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 125

Thread: Should the Zayak rule be modified?

  1. #1
    Size 7 Knife Boots Sam-Skwantch's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Location
    At the Rink
    Posts
    4,301

    Should the Zayak rule be modified?

    An interesting discussion began to sidetrack another thread so I am attempting to move any discussion on it over here.

    Does the Zayek rule overly restrict the Free Skate and if so what are your suggestions to fix it. Are there any solutions that could ease up the mental calculations that skaters are currently making on the fly and prevent abuse of repeating jumps?

    One suggestion was to score all valid jumps and only use the highest value of any attempted jumps. I can see a problem here in that if someone falls they can reattempt a jump over and over again but I'm sure PCS like Execution would take a hit making things equal.

    Thoughts?
    Last edited by Sam-Skwantch; 01-21-2015 at 10:47 PM.

  2. #2
    skating philosopher Mrs. P's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    The land of Agent Dale Cooper
    Posts
    10,361
    Noburnari Oda missed out on so many world medals (and an Olympic berth) because of that damn rule. So yes, I'd say it's overly restrictive especially that super dumb rule on double jumps.

    I agree that a BV hit on too many jumps would be preferable than giving ZERO points.

  3. #3
    Custom Title StitchMonkey's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2014
    Posts
    826
    I think something more like the +REP deduction would be more reasonable. I hate seeing the entire pass zeroed out due to an extra 2T. There are other options.

  4. #4
    Custom Title BlackPack's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Posts
    1,235
    What about Javier Fernandez in Sochi...

  5. #5
    Tripping on the Podium
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Location
    The Land of Oz
    Posts
    66
    Hmm...I thought they've already amended the rules this season...that you'll get a reduced set of points instead of a complete zero. I'll have to check on that again.

  6. #6
    Custom Title
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Posts
    141
    Quote Originally Posted by oriquey View Post
    Hmm...I thought they've already amended the rules this season...that you'll get a reduced set of points instead of a complete zero. I'll have to check on that again.
    But they also amended the rules allowing for double jumps to be repeated max 2x per program, which I think is wrong.
    Now you get skaters doing 3-2T-2T in the second half of their programs being invalidated because they only did a 2T on the end of another jump, which is just stupid. I don't know if the ISU is trying to promote 2Lo combos or 3-3's or what their end game is, but this new rule really leaves no margin for error when it comes to completing your combinations as planned.

  7. #7
    Custom Title humbaba's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    210
    Quote Originally Posted by StitchMonkey View Post
    I hate seeing the entire pass zeroed out due to an extra 2T.
    This is what I find so unfair about the current Zayak rules.

  8. #8
    Skating is art, if you let it be. Blades of Passion's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Hollywood, CA
    Posts
    4,203
    It's been a problem ever since the VERY beginning of CoP. Plushenko lost a GPF title because of the arbitrary jump combo rule. Unfathomable that after 11 years they still haven't fixed it.

    Really, it would NOT be hard at all to code the computer program and change the rules so that the tech panel can manually give the skaters appropriate credit for what they've performed, instead of entire elements being worth 0 points for no good reason.

  9. #9
    Custom Title
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Posts
    3,402
    I think the solution is simple: Anything Zayaked gets the value of one revolution less. Repeat an extra 3S? You get the value of a 2S. Nobody will stupidly repeat a 3S when they can do a much easier 2S, but if you make a mistake, it's not like you get no BV and no GOE.

    Downgrading 2T/2Lo in combinations to 1T/1Lo is pretty much equal to a zero, but the rest of the combo should count. Why on earth should the perfectly good 3Lz/3F/3Lo in the beginning of the combo get nothing?

    I don't know why it never got fixed, or why they've actually made things worse this season...

  10. #10
    Missing D&G GF2445's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    Sydney, Australia
    Posts
    1,926
    I find it so interesting that so many of us react differently when we say that IJS is unfair.

    When it's about Zayak, it seems that we think that CoP is too harsh
    and when the topic is about falls, we all think that a skater should get a lot less points than the system allows.

    And on the topic of under rotations and downgrades - we are still quite split.

  11. #11
    Custom Title
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Location
    somewhere with snow
    Posts
    464
    Quote Originally Posted by Sandpiper View Post
    I think the solution is simple: Anything Zayaked gets the value of one revolution less. Repeat an extra 3S? You get the value of a 2S. Nobody will stupidly repeat a 3S when they can do a much easier 2S, but if you make a mistake, it's not like you get no BV and no GOE.

    Downgrading 2T/2Lo in combinations to 1T/1Lo is pretty much equal to a zero, but the rest of the combo should count. Why on earth should the perfectly good 3Lz/3F/3Lo in the beginning of the combo get nothing?

    I don't know why it never got fixed, or why they've actually made things worse this season...
    This is my favorite suggestion yet

  12. #12
    Tripping on the Podium
    Join Date
    Dec 2014
    Posts
    70
    Quote Originally Posted by GF2445 View Post
    I find it so interesting that so many of us react differently when we say that IJS is unfair.

    When it's about Zayak, it seems that we think that CoP is too harsh
    and when the topic is about falls, we all think that a skater should get a lot less points than the system allows.
    It doesn't seem to me that people react differently, quite the opposite. Overall most feel ISU is being unfair because it punishes harshly what is thought to be a smaller mistake and is lenient on what is thought to be a bigger mistake, no inconsistency here.

    I would really like to hear an ISU official defend the rules in an interview, though.

  13. #13
    inhaling the 'tano drama satine94's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2014
    Location
    running the vuvuzela crematorium
    Posts
    2,280
    Quote Originally Posted by Moria Polonius View Post
    It doesn't seem to me that people react differently, quite the opposite. Overall most feel ISU is being unfair because it punishes harshly what is thought to be a smaller mistake and is lenient on what is thought to be a bigger mistake, no inconsistency here.

    I would really like to hear an ISU official defend the rules in an interview, though.
    I'd pay a good amount of money to see this happen

  14. #14
    Adiós Melon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Posts
    579
    Figure skating is a competitive sport. Why beg for points for doing something wrong in a program?

  15. #15
    Custom Title
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Posts
    3,978
    Quote Originally Posted by Melon View Post
    Figure skating is a competitive sport. Why beg for points for doing something wrong in a program?
    I agree. The Zayak rule seems no more arbitrary than a time deduction, or a costume deduction, etc. Oda had problems because of the rule, but to a certain extent, isn't it his own fault for continuously violating the rule? Keeping track of what jumps you have done is one of the many things skaters must manage during their programs.

Page 1 of 9 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •