Bobrova & Soloviev- the wild cards of ice dancing this season
- Thread starter pangtongfan
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I don't think P/B should be punished for stuff that happened off the ice (AKA "mouthing off"). I think they skated better than the teams in front of them in Saitama and deserved the gold. That's all there is to it.
I would've placed C/L in third place behind both P/B and W/P in Saitama... perhaps the result indicates that the judges disagree. But with the scores so close, I'm certainly not ready to declare C/L the new favoured team.
Hi slider11,
Thanks for the reference to the Worlds medal ceremony - I haven't previously watched this, and I enjoyed watching it here.
I particularly enjoyed the little psychodrama when Ottavio Cinquanta presents Kaitlyn Weaver with her "Silver Medal" at 11:57. When Cinquanta goes back for the "Silver Medal" for Andrew Poje, Kaitlyn takes a quick look at her "Silver Medal" and, to her horror, sees that it is actually a Bronze Medal. She quickly tells Andrew what has happened, and she discreetly shows Cinquanta the mix-up and keeps the Bronze Medal covered with her hands (the TV camera catches this as though it's been choreographed). While Cinquanta beats a hasty retreat to retrieve the Silver Medal, Kaitlyn turns to Anna Cappellini at 12:15 and tells her that it's Bronze: Anna cracks up, but tries to hold her composure. As Cinquanta returns with the Silver Medal, the crowd has figured out what's happening and they all crack up. Cinquanta points to Kaitlyn's Bronze Medal: she turns around and removes it very discreetly and slides it to Cinquanta, who finally presents her with her Silver Medal.
I find this whole episode to be hilarious. [I don't know whether it's been pointed out by anyone else.]
Yes, Spindrift, that medal mix-up was hilarious. Good 'ole Cinquanta can't even get the medal color right! I'm sure he chewed out some poor little medal holder girl for not telling him he was giving the wrong medal. "Hey, leader of figure skating...give her the silver one, she's in second place..." If you watch the whole thing, Nathalie's devastation and frankly pout-y look is pretty evident. She needs to reign that in and be a little more gracious. It was a close competition. If anyone could have been resentful it could have been Kaitlyn and Andrew. I think their FD was far superior to Anna and Luca's. But that's the way it goes sometimes and next time you may be in the favor.
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I would have had it W&P gold, P&B silver, C&L bronze. P&B did not perform a great SD so there was some validation for their placing behind W&P and C&L, although I understand some still thinking they were robbed. I was happy for C&L and their win, but I almost think it was a consolation choice since the judges weren't ready to crown another NA team as champions so soon after V&M and D&W retiring, and they also weren't comfortable giving it to P&B for some reason. I&K were supposed to win it in a cakewalk so I don't think the judges had even considered what to do if they had a huge problem. So they settled on C&L. I am not saying they didn't deserve it, although I wouldn't have gone with them, they did skate very well and the points went there way. However like you I certainly don't see them as the dominant team or even really the team to beat moving forwards. Contenders in the short term, but that is all.
Exactly what I think.
I also think next season will be more about quality of the FDes than the skills of the pairs. I don't see B/S losing W/P and/or C/L if they have interesting and about same difficulty FD (of course with clean skate). But if their FD will be messy stuff again than they will fall out of TOP 3 for sure.
And no way in hell they'll lose to C/B or S/S. They will be #1 russian pair and they're established yourself, hello. Of course if they will mess their twizzles or fall....
About Carmen and Karenina. I don't worry about their SD, they'll do good. And Karenina themed FD is great idea in my opinion. Sounds classic and not overused at the same time.
And people say the programs sound similar? Why exactly? Because they're named after two beautiful women? Come on! Did you hear Karenina soundtrack at all? It's actually a waltz.
hwell:I think P/B did enough in the FD to overcome their SD deficit (it's not like they made a huge error a la I/K). However, I can see the case for W/P. I'd prefer either the French or the Canadians winning over C/L. There just wasn't any substance in C/L's FD.
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Lordy, the medal mess was a hoot -- hadn't seen it before, either. Kind of makes me wish a similar mix-up had happened in Sochi, although if it had, I'm sure there would have been a riot in the arena...
I really hope B/S bounce back this season. The splits in Russian Ice Dance have definitely helped them, as I/K after Sochi were definitely Russian No. 1's if not World No. 1's (twizzle errror aside I think they would have won in Saitama). Priot to worlds I would have expected two Russians and P/B on the podium, I would never have called C/L as world champions.
I am probably one of the few who liked their birds programme, at least I understood what the story was, which is something I can say about very few dance programmes these days. I think all the chopping and changing through the season really undermined them and come Sochi the Russians swung behing I/K after the team comp. I also liked their Man with a Harmonica programme, melodies of the white nights, their chess programme and their sailors short dance.
Not so sure how Carmen suits them but I am really looking forward to their Anna K.
I am probably one of the few who liked their birds programme, at least I understood what the story was, which is something I can say about very few dance programmes these days. I think all the chopping and changing through the season really undermined them and come Sochi the Russians swung behing I/K after the team comp. I also liked their Man with a Harmonica programme, melodies of the white nights, their chess programme and their sailors short dance.
Not so sure how Carmen suits them but I am really looking forward to their Anna K.
There's something about Bobrova and Soloviev that doesn't sit right with me. A couple years ago there was a Skate America practice video with Davis and White, Bobrova and soloviev and a couple others on the ice. Davis and White's music was playing and so it was there chance to have command of center ice. That's the rule. Right before Charlie lifted Meryl upside down for one of those difficult one legged super-hard balance moves, Bobrova and Soloviev cur right in front of them and, luckily, Charlie saw it and aborted the lift. It was super scary. This video has been since taken down. So, ok, maybe an accident but since then I've watched Soloviev's demeanor and there seems to me an edge, an arrogance that I'm, not liking. I'm sure his fans will disagree and say it was just an accident and it happens all the time. We'll see...
B/S always seem to go all dramatic to cover up their technical deficiencies. That hasn't worked for them so far and isn't likely to work for them in the future, especially if other teams are working on improving themselves technically instead of choreographing coverups.
Who knows maybe the disappointment of last season will light a fire in them.
Sochi 2014. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IVsL01m_ZbI
How many pairs are breaking the 'rules'! OMG.
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Given the retirements, they are currently the de facto #1 team in the World.
That's a depressing thought, given their technical deficiencies. Two years ago they actually made technical progress (at least they weren't hunched over nearly as much), but last year, it seems they prioritized speed and Uber!Drama! and seemed to have lost any gains they made in clean technique. That's depressing.
On the other hand, I don't see them maintaining their position for long. I just don't.
Sorry? Bobrova & Soloviev’s technical deficiencies? Which one? Kids have one of the best skating skills, right now they and I&K&S&Z (in any order you want) are skaters with the best skating skills from all current teams competing. I don’t imagine other people except Virtue & Moir who would be able to skate clean B&S this year’s SD and FD, but I can imagine B&S skating technically clean all this years programs except Virtue & Moir‘s programs.
Bobrova’s upper body position is wrong and should be corrected….the same way Evan Bates and Andrew Poje and Elena Ilinykh‘s work of free leg should be corrected…the same way “out of the rhythm“ issues by some skaters should be corrected…the same way poor edges by Evan Bates should be corrected…etc. Simply all couple should work on themselves, there is still place for an improvement. But frankly B&S’s technicial difficulties – that it a funny thing. If you take lost level in twizzles at the Olympics like technical error, OK, but they are not the only ones with twizzle‘s problems (Katsalapov is fighting in a very similar way with twizzles, but he usually gots level 4 no matter what).
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I think we will find that a lot of teams have twizzle problems this year, given that there are new requirements to achieve level four. It will be interesting and perhaps a bit heart-breaking to watch.
Yes, I must say that I worry what we will see. Not in terms of mistakes, but in terms of injuries. For example the twizzles with the head bend backward - I find it very dangerous especially in time when the couple will be very nervous during important competition, loose concentration and fall without an orientation in space thanks to head bend backward.
I don’t want to look that skaters (especially dancers) are a group of close friends without any rivalry inside, that was never true. But there are certain borders which they simply don’t cross over.
Rule about avoiding the couple who skates the program during practise or overall avoiding an accidents at practise / warm-ups…yes, all dancers try to do it. And they all fail time to time.
You must take into account some things…
1) all dancers are not from one ring, so they don’t know whole choreography of their rivals (in which part lift, twizzles, steps are planned)…
2) all dancers skate just some parts of the programs and for the rest of time they are just moving hand in hand across the ice, so other couples are skating closer to them taking place for their elements…
3) it is sometimes really hard to guess in what direction the choreography and skating couple goes…
4) there are coaches of all couples who are starting to scream immediately when couples get too close, but sometimes even they don’t notice the danger or they notice it too late…
5) you can notice at every practise that all couples are interupting elements many times because they must avoid a crash with another couple…
If really Bobrova & Soloviev didn’t pay attention to Davis & White or if they simply expected that the couple is not skating right now / skating into another direction / or they simply didn’t see them…I don’t know. But I refuse to think that this behaviour could be on purpose.
There is one thing which you don’t take into account, slider11.
The injuries. Very often if two couples crash there are injured people on both sides. I don’t believe that some dancers would be so stupid to try to arrange a crash knowing that they could be injured as well.
Do you remember Nora Hoffmann and Japanese lady Watanabe’s crash at 2006 World Champs during FD warm-up? Nora was cut into elbow and bleeding, she was also hit by Watanabe into her back, which caused a back injury – Nora almost withdrew and finished her FD in tears.
Or for example Sinitsina & Zhiganshin executed twizzles at Cup of Russia 2012 FD practise while I&K skated towards them (you can imagine how safe Vika and Ruslan felt when they rotated twizzles and by tail of their eyes saw another couple who was skating against them).
The same Sinitsina & Zhiganshin were “attacked“ by Papadakis & Cizeron at 2012 Junior World FD warm-up, while Vika and Ruslan couldn’t see Gabriella and Guillaume, the French were skating and looking at direction of Russians and almost crashed into them.
I don’t think that those almost accidents happened by purpose, why? Nobody wants to be injured for the rest of the season.
To Soloviev arrogancy, I must say that some years ago I read somewhere that Katya Bobrova is more self confident person…but I never read it about Dima. But arrogancy issue seems a little but funny…Katya was the only one who sold the car (which was a gift from Medvedev for Olympic Medal) and gave a part of the money for charity. And Dima was that one who tried to make calm screaming people who didn’t agree with marks after FD at the Olympics, because he wanted to allowed next competing ice dance couple to prepare and concentrate.
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I hope no team will choose to use that head held backward option. I agree it is likely to prove dangerous.
And yes, teams try to avoid each other always, but there are often close calls. Everyone knows this, I hope.
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None of the other skaters in the video got in the way of B&S when they were rehearsing segments of their program. The practice ice belongs to everyone. The only thing is, the team whose music is playing has the right of way. When you see them coming you are supposed to get out of their way so as to avoid collisions, as the other teams did in this video.
