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Thread: Bobrova & Soloviev- the wild cards of ice dancing this season

  1. #46
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    I know I'm late to the convo but I have a hard time seeing B/S making that much of an impact this season, not with Soloviev still not 100%, with a groin injury no less. He has been nursing it from last season, and even still Zhulin saddled them with four programs, IMHO just beyond unfortunate. I think RN will be a free for all when one or both new pairs as well as some other enterprising pair may really surprise. Just a thought..And seriously is Carmen the only piece Zhulin could have chosen for these two? I find them softer and more lyrical, not so passionate maybe? How many times has he done Carmen? I would love to be surprised though as they seem like a really hard working pair however younger, hard working and more talented pairs may not be far behind them

  2. #47
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    I think they certainly have potential to be a player this season. I'm not entirely convinced that C/L and W/P will continue to be the top 2 teams (they certainly have the confidence, but I'm not entirely sure they can maintain it). I'm more curious to see if teams like B/S, W/P, and C/L will elevate their skating to attempt to reach the level of D/W and V/M (even with them not competing). I'm also very excited for C/B, and think they have all the makings of a top World team... especially love that they actually go for the highest difficulty (kinda like Dubreil/Lauzon did), which bumps them up slightly higher than the judges would otherwise probably want them placed.

    I felt bad for B/S last season... it was a really bad time to try something experimental. However, I'm not particularly happy with their Cup of Russia favouritism. They should EASILY make the GPF though, and probably with two wins (yep, I have a hunch they defeat C/L at TEB).

    One note: I don't think B/S' success will be entirely a product of I/K splitting up, and think it's kind of disparaging and rude to suggest that the big reason B/S will be successful next season is because a putatively better team dropped out, and not because they put in the effort. It would be like saying the only reason W/P are doing well is because V/M did them a huge favour by not competing (obviously W/P wouldn't have podiumed at Worlds if D/W and V/M were there, but it still doesn't discount the effort they made to win silver).

  3. #48
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    B/S are a hard working pair, I don't really think their move to Zhulin was for the best though.He certainly fixed some of their issues in their first year together,but their ability to maintain their speed throughout the program suffered . I'm sure they needed the change,their 2012 Worlds was a disaster, they were very criticized about their style, they wanted the media support, so back then it was a good move. But as things are now, I'm not sure it was for the best , longterm. Last season, with the 'Birds' FD, it seemed like Zhulin's creativity had hit rock bottom, and B/S were the same old B/S that were criticised during their Kustarova years.Nor the program, neither the costumes.And they had a pretty tough season, experimenting during the Olympic season with an injury isn't the best of choices.
    They will do the Grand Prix Final,I'm sure, but the important thing for them is to not lose to Chock/Bates at Skate America, cause then, we're going to a new kind of adventure for all russian couples. Considering the two new pairs face Chock/Bates in Russia, if something happens and one of the two, or both beat them, this is not good news for B/S and it could lead to a very open Nationals.
    I'm kind of sure though that the federation will support B/S locally, they always do, unless Dima's injury is far worse than people think.

  4. #49
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    Bobrova & Soloviev were not held up in Cup of Russia. Weaver & Poje had a poor quality OD like they had most of last season, with the only exceptions being Skate Canada and worlds. B&S had an excellent OD and thus garnered a deservedly large lead over a mediocre W&P. W&P did win the FD as they should have. Even if you adjusted the PCS and had W&P equal or higher in both programs, B&S would still be the winners there.

  5. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by slider11 View Post
    I knew I would ruffle feathers. I appreciate that the SA incident I mentioned was not the only one and certainly B/S are not alone. Perhaps this is something that the ISU should "police" more carefully and call out skaters who have a propensity to do this during practices. This shouldn't be skaters and coaches giving each other dirty looks but an official body warning of frequent infractions. Definitely, both teams are vulnerable to injury in these situations but some have more to lose than others.
    This would be quite problematic, I think. If you don’t know you rival‘s choreography than you not always predict correctly in what direction they will skate to (and what direction is free for you), the couple skating on music makes it even harder skating only some part of the program.
    Also we must realise that every element takes some seconds, take some spacing on the ice, so on the beginning you can start an element when the couple skating for music is far from you, but in 4 seconds you may get quite close (very hard to notice if you are in twizzles, lifts, or with your back towards the couple). Also in spin you can hardly notice who is skating more close to you (if it is the couple skating to the music)…for example I&K‘s spin lasted almost a half minute, so Davis & White or whoever else skating to the music could crasch into them at least three times.

    With some penalties for couples during practise, it would finally finish with all couples standing close the boards and waiting until all couples will skate their routines. Free dance takes 4 minutes, one minute for an announcement, 5 couples in one group – it is 25 minutes. So during a practise which lasts 40 minutes (5 minutes from it for warm-up), the couple could skate their program and then they would have about 10 minutes only for real practise. It would be hard and very dangerous, because when you don’t move, you are getting cold and you can be injured easily then with fast movements (Soloviev’s case at 2014 World Champs for example).

    If you crash with somebody being in a lift, then for the first view the lifted partner can have a hard fall of course. On the other hand the second couple can be injured as well - by blades of lifted partner while both blades can be on the level of their face / neck / shoulder / stomack / back (it happened in Nora Hoffmann's case) / hand / leg. I also remember a crash of Denkova & Staviski and Lang & Tchernyshev at practise (I think in 2000) when Tchernyshev cut Denkova into a leg and she needed an emergency help and surgery.

  6. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by pangtongfan View Post
    Bobrova & Soloviev were not held up in Cup of Russia. Weaver & Poje had a poor quality OD like they had most of last season, with the only exceptions being Skate Canada and worlds. B&S had an excellent OD and thus garnered a deservedly large lead over a mediocre W&P. W&P did win the FD as they should have. Even if you adjusted the PCS and had W&P equal or higher in both programs, B&S would still be the winners there.
    B/S received PCS of 53.61 for a free dance with a fall (almost 1.5 points higher PCS than their clean CoC FD). 6 out of 9 judges gave them 9's or higher for performance/execution (one as high as 9.5 ). B&S should have still been the winners, but it's ridiculous that with a fall they still got almost 100 points (99.90). What next? Suggesting Lipnitskaia wasn't held up at Cup of Russia last year?!

  7. #52
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    My point is B&S deserved to win Cup of Russia. W&P like they unfortunately delivered at most of their events last season, and which cost them dearly throughout the season, delivered a poor OD which legitimately was marked far lower than B&S's excellent OD. W&P deserved to win the FD and did, but not by as big a margin as B&S deservedly won the OD by, even with proper scoring. The only time last season W&P skated well enough in a competition to deserve beating B&S, Russia or not, was at worlds, and they didn't get to due to B&S's WD.

    You fixate on things like Lipnitskaya beating a clean Kostner in the short program at Cup of Russia and Sochi Olympics, yet ignore that the same thing happened when they met at Europeans. Julia's harder jump combnation and much superior spins are enough to overcome Kostner's superior skating skills and artistry in the short program in the judges eyes, whether in Russia or not. Of course you have no problem with Sotnikova's scores throughout the season, and her regularly beating a clean Kostner in the short not with a much harder combination like Julia but with the same one, or even an easier one (Sochi), despite that Sotnikova is also leagues inferior artistically, and her skating skills (like Julia) don't scrape the surface of Kostner's. Then again you worship Adelina and don't care for Julia and we all know how you function.

  8. #53
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    Saying B&S deserved to win and B&S weren't held up are two different things.

    How can you compare Lipnitskaia and Kostner in the SP at Euros to Cup of Russia? They're two completely different scenarios. The reason I "fixated" on Lip at CoR was because it was pertaining to Bobrova/Soloviev at CoR, getting high PCS for a flawed performance, including a fall. And by extension, hoping that B&S/other Russians aren't privy to the same favouritism this season at that event (i.e. it ain't Olympic season, so the Russian Federation could probably ease up on their quite likely influence of the judges).

    Also, I never said I was okay with Sotnikova's scores throughout the season. Many times I have expressed outrage that a perfect Kostner was placed behind a clean Sotnikova/Lipnitskaia. I thought both Adelina and Julia were overscored at Euros (though the standings were correct) and Adelina was definitely overscored in Sochi. I've said this many times, so attempting to suggest otherwise is as inaccurate and hilariously delusional as you saying Chan wins with 5 falls. Just because I don't childishly attempt to slander Sotnikova at every waking moment and make it my relentless mission to whine about her unbearably, cataclysmically grievous Sochi win in every other post (hint hint) doesn't mean I automatically agree with every result and score she's had. Anyone says a positive word about Sotnikova and you immediately think they're an uber. Anyone suggests that Julia's performance at CoR wasn't worthy of the PCS given to her and you immediately label them a hater.

    I also don't get your persistent attempts to discredit/misappropriate me about things I never actually said. I know you're upset that Federer lost and you bet on him... and that you're also infuriated that I correctly predicted Djokovic would win Wimbledon - while you asserted he's the least skilled of the top players on grass ..... but there's no need for your futile attempts at insulting me or misappropriating me in other threads. (Oh, btw, hope you didn't lose too much money... I, on the other hand, just made a cool $4800 off Djokovic's win, haven't you heard. Drinks are on me tonight. )

  9. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by CanadianSkaterGuy View Post
    Drinks are on me tonight. )

    Great! I'll have a cup of molten gold...to go.



    Congrats on the big win.

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