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Thread: Why no Solo Dance?

  1. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by CanadianSkaterGuy View Post
    Sure, institute it, but I wouldn't make it an Olympic or World medal worthy sport any time soon, given the lack of distinguishable elements (compared to other disciplines) and HUGE subjectivity involved in determining a winner.
    Do you know the elements required for solo dance? They are very distinguishable. Twizzles, spins, footwork with specific turns required at each level, edge elements (spirals, spread eagles, etc), not to mention actually skating to the beat of the music. There really is a LOT more to skating than just the jumps. Solo dance is a great opportunity for skaters who are good SKATERS (as opposed to jumpers) and want to focus on skating skills, transitions, choreography, interpretation, performance, etc. For those who have not tried ice dance or synchro skating, these skaters are every ounce the athlete freestyle skaters are. They are completely different disciplines that are just as difficult in different ways. Perhaps to the person who does not understand dance, the elements aren't distinguishable, but if you take the time to learn about dance, you will realize that is not the case.

  2. #17
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    So solo dance is something for maniacs, not even average skating fans can't understand, let alone ordinary people.

  3. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by NMURA View Post
    So solo dance is something for maniacs, not even average skating fans can't understand, let alone ordinary people.
    It's really not that hard to understand. I just told you what the elements are; look for them in a program. If you can tell a person is doing a jump, you can tell if a person is doing a twizzle. The "average fan" can't tell if a jump was done well or not (proper edge, full rotation, etc), but that doesn't keep them from watching! Try spending just a little time learning about something before being so dismissive.

  4. #19
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    The "average fan" can't tell if a jump was done well or not (proper edge, full rotation, etc),
    But the "average fan" can tell if you stood up or not. I don't suppose there'll be a lot of people falling on twizzles?

    Solo dance does present some challenges in judging (as well as a lot of sport/not sport debates). Rather than comparing it to singles, better to compare it to ice dance. My conclusion: it's even harder to understand and judge, because in ice dance you have holds, lifts, and side-by-side twizzles.

  5. #20
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    Quite a few people have fallen or tripped on twizzles ,

    Ask Nikita Katsalapov this year.

    Heck, ask any dance team.

  6. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by dorispulaski View Post
    Quite a few people have fallen or tripped on twizzles ,

    Ask Nikita Katsalapov this year.

    Heck, ask any dance team.
    Exactly. Twizzles are a LOT harder than they look. Elena and Nikita lost both the European and World Championships this year because they missed the twizzles. In the case of worlds, they missed the podium all together because of their mistake with twizzles.



    The "average fan" can't tell if a jump was done well or not (proper edge, full rotation, etc),
    "But the "average fan" can tell if you stood up or not."

    One could argue that it is really confusing when someone "stood up" on all their jumps, and yet gets a really low technical score. Standing up on the jump isn't even half the battle. Correct takeoff edge and full rotation, which the average fan knows nothing about, are just as important. A "stood up" "triple" can actually net someone almost no points if they get lots of deductions on it, deductions that cannot be identified by most people watching. And yet, people watch. If you have no interest in learning about solo ice dance, that is fine. I just ask people not be so dismissive/ flippant about it, especially when clueless about the discipline.

  7. #22
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    Oh, of course. But it doesn't happen as often as people fall on jumps (thank god). Problem of judging remains. (Also, falling on solo twizzles should be even rarer, since you don't have a partner to crash into... or a partner to stay in synch with to determine which team did better).

    Woah, why are you saying I have no interest in learning about solo dance? I've stated many times in the thread that I'm totally fine with solo dance championships (and that even people who aren't interested can just not watch). I'm simply raising the issue that it is hard to judge.

    And many people are confused about the current judging system in singles. Hence why we have so many of these COP vs. 6.0 debates.

  8. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sandpiper View Post
    Oh, of course. But it doesn't happen as often as people fall on jumps (thank god). Problem of judging remains. (Also, falling on solo twizzles should be even rarer, since you don't have a partner to crash into... or a partner to stay in synch with to determine which team did better).
    Again, go try a twizzle before you dismiss them.The difference between great twizzles and ones that are just okay is stark. There are many qualities on which to judge solo dance and the quality of the program. Also, there are just as many judging issues in the other disciplines. Jumps are not the only thing in freestyle; why do the judges both to mark the other elements if they are "indistinguishable?"

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    I never said twizzles were easy. I said solo dance poses unique problems in judging, because it lacks certain elements that are present in ice dance. And the "other elements" are not indistinguishable in singles. The audience can tell how fast and well-centred a spin is, for instance. They can tell if a jump is landed lightly, or if the air position is straight or wonky.

    I support the growth of solo dance. Don't lump me in with NMURA (who is, of course, entitled to his/her opinion, but it's not an opinion I share).

  10. #25
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    Frankly, solo dance will be kind of a dump site for singles skaters who can't compete due to weak jumping ability yet physically unsuitable for pairs or ice dance. Not so many "fans" would be interested in such a "discipline".

  11. #26
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    Are there available videos of men solo dance that I can view? Thanks.

  12. #27
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    Hey, it'll be great to see 'dancers' like Daisuke Takahashi or Akiko Suzuki as solo dancers. I love their programs even without the jumps!

  13. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by carriecmu0503 View Post
    Exactly. Twizzles are a LOT harder than they look. Elena and Nikita lost both the European and World Championships this year because they missed the twizzles. In the case of worlds, they missed the podium all together because of their mistake with twizzles.



    The "average fan" can't tell if a jump was done well or not (proper edge, full rotation, etc)
    "But the "average fan" can tell if you stood up or not."

    One could argue that it is really confusing when someone "stood up" on all their jumps, and yet gets a really low technical score. Standing up on the jump isn't even half the battle. Correct takeoff edge and full rotation, which the average fan knows nothing about, are just as important. A "stood up" "triple" can actually net someone almost no points if they get lots of deductions on it, deductions that cannot be identified by most people watching. And yet, people watch. If you have no interest in learning about solo ice dance, that is fine. I just ask people not be so dismissive/ flippant about it, especially when clueless about the discipline.
    Twizzles are actually pretty easy in the grand scheme of things (every decent skater should be able to execute them in all directions -- although maybe not everyone can do it with the level features like jumping into a twizzle or keeping a hand on the skate). Synchronized twizzles however is MUCH more difficult, and that's the part which messes up many dance teams.

  14. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by aims View Post
    Hey, it'll be great to see 'dancers' like Daisuke Takahashi or Akiko Suzuki as solo dancers. I love their programs even without the jumps!
    In addition, would love to see Stephane and Jeffrey in the mix. But then, I guess the discipline would end up with 'retired' skaters who could still 'move' but not jump as before...

  15. #30
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    I'd LOVE to see Lambiel and Takahashi face off in a dance competition -On or off the ice.

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