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Thread: SP/LP: Combined number of quads

  1. #16
    lurking.. 0v0 satine94's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Meoima View Post
    I hope so, too. If SP last season with THAT outfit can get 96 points, then his new SP this season with 2 quads (and a very handsome outfit ) can get a new world record. I hope he will get lots of support at home. go Javi!
    True

  2. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Meoima View Post
    You haven't seen Javi's new SP yet? He landed both 4T and 4S in his new SP.
    Could you post a link please? I've seen the program (and love it!), just not with the quads in it.

  3. #18
    Love popcorn, hate horendous costumes Meoima's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CanadianSkaterGuy View Post
    Could you post a link please? I've seen the program (and love it!), just not with the quads in it.
    It was at the ice shows in Japan and the reporters said his layout for SP will have 2 quads, one quad in combo, so maybe 4S, 3A and 3A 4T. There is not yet a video with full layout and Javi said they are still building the program so the clip might not be the final version.

    But I am certain he will do 2 quads in the SP. Yuzuru also said that Javi now can jump 4 different quads already.

  4. #19
    Custom Title FSGMT's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Meoima View Post
    But I am certain he will do 2 quads in the SP. Yuzuru also said that Javi now can jump 4 different quads already.
    Does this mean that he can land a 4F/Lz??

  5. #20
    Love popcorn, hate horendous costumes Meoima's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FSGMT View Post
    Does this mean that he can land a 4F/Lz??
    Maybe the 4loop and the 4luzt. It's Yuzuru who is his training mate said so. Yuzuru can also do the 4loop now, maybe he was learning it from Javi.

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    Replying to CanadianSkaterGuy's post here:

    Well, you're talking about it being a good strategy points-wise. I'm talking about performances I'd like to see, and my conclusion is that I don't want to see more failed quad attempts. I don't, personally, find anything impressive about "attempting" five quads if you fail on three of them. At the end of the day, you still only completed two clean quads over someone else who planned three quads and completed all three. And you've likely got a crappier performance as well because of all the falls/stumbles/hand-downs. Of course, I have no medals to hand out, so skaters aren't exactly going to listen to me.

    But even in terms of points, attempting more quads isn't always a good idea. You could end up expending so much energy on the quads that you end up missing the other elements. You can see this from someone like Javi (who is probably the best current quad jumper)--landing more quads than his competitors but losing because he messed up something else.

    I dunno, maybe I'm too old-school. I love quads but I think they should be high-risk, high-reward. I feel like the low-risk, high-reward COP has... almost ruined quads for me. It's not exciting anymore when you know that a skater can go down on a quad and still be fine. There's nothing impressive about being a risk-taker anymore, because frankly there's not enough risk in the scores. When going down on a quad is fairly okay, of course everybody and their pet cat (or pet Godzilla) attempts the quad.

  7. #22
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    When is someone going to do a quint?

  8. #23
    Love popcorn, hate horendous costumes Meoima's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Icey View Post
    When is someone going to do a quint?
    We need a cyborg for that jump, I am afraid. I think if anyone can do a 4A consistently, we need to check if he is alien or not.

  9. #24
    fairy dust distributor ~Pamina~'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Icey View Post
    When is someone going to do a quint?
    I don't know. Let's ask one of the jump-droids.
    What do you think, Yuzu, how about that quint?

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    Maybe Michael Jordan's physical ability plus Kevin Reynolds' rotation speed, it makes a quint possible.

  11. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sandpiper View Post
    Replying to CanadianSkaterGuy's post here:

    Well, you're talking about it being a good strategy points-wise. I'm talking about performances I'd like to see, and my conclusion is that I don't want to see more failed quad attempts. I don't, personally, find anything impressive about "attempting" five quads if you fail on three of them. At the end of the day, you still only completed two clean quads over someone else who planned three quads and completed all three. And you've likely got a crappier performance as well because of all the falls/stumbles/hand-downs. Of course, I have no medals to hand out, so skaters aren't exactly going to listen to me.

    But even in terms of points, attempting more quads isn't always a good idea. You could end up expending so much energy on the quads that you end up missing the other elements. You can see this from someone like Javi (who is probably the best current quad jumper)--landing more quads than his competitors but losing because he messed up something else.

    I dunno, maybe I'm too old-school. I love quads but I think they should be high-risk, high-reward. I feel like the low-risk, high-reward COP has... almost ruined quads for me. It's not exciting anymore when you know that a skater can go down on a quad and still be fine. There's nothing impressive about being a risk-taker anymore, because frankly there's not enough risk in the scores. When going down on a quad is fairly okay, of course everybody and their pet cat (or pet Godzilla) attempts the quad.
    I fundamentally believe that skaters should take calculated risks. It's no fun to see a skater constantly go for an element that they miss 99% of the time, but it's also not fun to see skaters play it safe either.

    I think men's skating is at a point where all men should be attempting 2-3 quads in their FS (and consider learning and attempting 2 different quads in their SP), if they want to be atop the World podium. It's been well over a decade that skaters have competed 2 (or more) quad freeskates, and it's been over a decade that new skaters to adapt to the new scoring system. It is far more challenging, but that's what makes the sport exciting. I don't want to see clean competitions with no quads... that's what the 80's/90's are for, or exhibition skates. It's the risk that makes skating watchable as a sport, and quads (plural) are a part of that now.

  12. #27
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    I don't want quadless competitions either. As you said, that's so 80s.

    I think men's skating is at a point where all men should be attempting 2-3 quads in their FS (and consider learning and attempting 2 different quads in their SP), if they want to be atop the World podium.
    This is what I don't understand, or at least can't agree with. Could you explain to me why men's skating is at the point where people should be attempting 5 quads? The top skaters are struggling to hit 3 quads--Chan did this, what, once last season, and Hanyu never. Fernandez does more quads, but he often messes up the other jumps and only does one triple axel. Chan won Olympic silver with a step-out in the SP, one clean quad + five clean triples in the LP, and no axel jump at all. Ten won bronze with a bad SP and a one-quad LP. And there have been plenty of competitions in the past four years that have been like this. Competitions Chan won with deservedly with falls because everyone else was worse.

    If everyone's suddenly running around with five quads, great, all the power to them! But I have a feeling I'm not going to get 5-quad LPs. I'm going to get splatfests. Why should we go up to a field that can barely hit 3 quads, and suddenly expect them to do five? Innovation happens naturally--it cannot be forced.

  13. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sandpiper View Post
    and Hanyu never.

    Hanyu landed 3 quads in Finlandia


    I like watching quads especially from Hanyu (4T) and Fernandez (4S). I hope Kovtun will be doing 2x 4T in LP, because when I am seeing him doing sal my face is

  14. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sandpiper View Post
    I don't want quadless competitions either. As you said, that's so 80s.


    This is what I don't understand, or at least can't agree with. Could you explain to me why men's skating is at the point where people should be attempting 5 quads? The top skaters are struggling to hit 3 quads--Chan did this, what, once last season, and Hanyu never. Fernandez does more quads, but he often messes up the other jumps and only does one triple axel. Chan won Olympic silver with a step-out in the SP, one clean quad + five clean triples in the LP, and no axel jump at all. Ten won bronze with a bad SP and a one-quad LP. And there have been plenty of competitions in the past four years that have been like this. Competitions Chan won with deservedly with falls because everyone else was worse.

    If everyone's suddenly running around with five quads, great, all the power to them! But I have a feeling I'm not going to get 5-quad LPs. I'm going to get splatfests. Why should we go up to a field that can barely hit 3 quads, and suddenly expect them to do five? Innovation happens naturally--it cannot be forced.
    I don't think 5 should be expected, but one quad attempt in the SP and two quad attempts in the FS should be standard - at least if you want to make it onto the world podium.

    All top level skaters should also be working on competing two different quads as well. They might not be competition ready or the most consistent, but now that many men have mastered a single type of quad, the field should be taking it to a whole new level. You've got tons of skaters in the past and present who have landed two different quads in a freeskate, so that should be the barometer. About 5 years from now, I anticipate we would be seeing 2-different-quad SPs as well as 3-quad LPs (or at least 2 quads and 2 axels LPs), if you're looking to be top 3 in the world.

    By "5-quads" I mean 2 in the SP and 3 in the LP -- not 5 quads in the LP! 5 quads in the LP is a bit too ambitious, and yes, definitely lends itself to a splatfest.

  15. #30
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    Hanyu landed 3 quads in Finlandia
    I stand corrected. Still, my point remains: most of the field haven't even gotten 3 quads safely tucked away.

    They might not be competition ready or the most consistent, but now that many men have mastered a single type of quad, the field should be taking it to a whole new level.
    But they haven't mastered it. Most of them still attempt it and fall. Chan has one type of quad and a terrible triple axel, and he still dominated the field for four years. The men today can barely meet the three-quad standard, let alone five. 2014 Worlds is promising but I don't want to harbour too much hope, lest I be let down.

    You've got tons of skaters in the past and present who have landed two different quads in a freeskate, so that should be the barometer.
    Tons? Who? Goebel and Fernandez are pretty much the only ones with two relatively consistent quads. Reynolds, Amodio, Hanyu, Honda, Joubert, and Kovtun "can" do two quads, but I wouldn't say they're anywhere close to mastering both (or either, in some cases). I'm probably forgetting someone here, but it's definitely not "tons."

    I'd rather see someone complete two beautiful quads of the same type rather than attempting two different quads, but being flawed 99% of the time. I don't want to see stagnation, but going too far, too fast isn't any better. A house without a foundation will blow away.

    By "5-quads" I mean 2 in the SP and 3 in the LP -- not 5 quads in the LP! 5 quads in the LP is a bit too ambitious, and yes, definitely lends itself to a splatfest.
    Well, of course, I wasn't referring to that either. Too implausible at this point to even discuss. You'd need three different quads to be able to do that without violating Zayak, and pretty much no one has done three different quads in competition (except Mroz?).

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