who's on schedule to peak at Torino?

bronxgirl said:

Joe,
I remember from one of your posts you cited Martina Navratilova playing competitive doubles tennis in her 40s. I'm not so sure that a 25 year old woman (which would be MK's age in Turino) couldn't do 3-3s with the proper build up in conditioning (and motivation) to Turino.
My point earlier is that two years is a long time in anyone's life. S**t happens. I know this from my own life (and I am very grateful to be alive).

Click to expand...

I'm not really saying Michelle can't do it. I am just questioning the motivation. She has beautiful technique in her skating and she has a renowned coach who can work her on those elusive 3x3s. (To beat the Japanese Ladies one would requre at minimum two 3x3s plus an exceptional presentation.)

for some gut feeling I have MK skating her swan song in Torino.
A beautiful performance but lacking in technical points. Let's hope I'm wrong and Arutunian can save the day. Not only with the jumps but also with the motivation as well.

the thread is about PEAKING and I think it safe to say that if MK gets the 3x3s, she'll be peaked!!!

Joe

Joe

Kateri said:

Why...why would she not remain eligible??? *lip trembling*
has someone heard something I haven't??? *stress*k

Click to expand...

Hey Kateri - I'm with you on Fumie. She is normally a great competitor, and unfortunately this past Worldfs was not good to her. Her LP in Dortmund was quite good, and she should have been top 10, but she was caught in the second group, and as Isaid before, it seems to me that, the judges wont allow skaters to move from one group to another.

Any news of her plans would be greatly appreciated.

Joe

The trick is, Michelle has to get motivated NOW, not in a year from now, or 18 months from now. That's the only way she can be successful in Turin.

There's only 19 months between July of this year (when COI folds for the season) and Turin, and she has to be willing to work herself into the best possible shape and maintain it throughout that period. She has to do GP events to get used to competing more frequently and to adjust her programs to conform to CoP. Most of all she has to keep her mind on the goal. Most of all, she has to WANT to do it.

show 42 said:

My earlier point, (not the "hearts can't take it" one) is that I truly hope that the Gold Medal Oly performances we see at the next Olympics will be by those who have been at their sport awhile, grown and changed the sport for the better just because they competed, and not by someone who was "at the right place at the right time". Phil Mikkelson just won his first major competition ever after a long time at playing golf....what a thrill, he played great, AND he deserved it............and not just because he played great......42

Click to expand...

I'm with you on that, show, in part, but I also think that, were that the way things went, albeit doing justice to great careers and contributions to figure skating (kind of like a "lifetime achievement award"), it wouldn't be the Olympics, since the Olympics, as we have seen in the past, is probably the highest-stakes competition in the sport and those who excel are often the nerviest, unflappable, indomitable competitors who also have a reasonable to good amount of "total package" to bring (I think it's RealtorGal or Dorispulaski who loathes that term--I'm sooo sorry; I just can't think of anything better )

Great analysis, Joe, though I think MK and SC's new coaching situations might well lead them to new peaks in their respective careers, making the most of their artistic strengths, while, I would imagine, attempting to incorporate a greater jump arsenal. Of the Japanese ladies you mentioned as likely to peak by 2006, I think Yukina has the time until then on her side to bump up her technical and in that respect, is in a similar position as MK and SC, minus, of course, the senior experience, and to have next year 04-05 as a breakout season sets her up nicely. Shizuka and Miki, who have upped the ante quite frequently in recent times, may be putting themselves at greater risk of being injured, that fearsome X factor.

Sarah

Re: Re: apologizing to the faint-hearted...

icenut84 said:

Plushenko was only 19 in Salt Lake, only won one world title. I don't think him not winning the OGM was the reason for him remaining in competition. He was still very young and still improving. As for Michelle, I don't know what would have happened if she had won the OGM, but she's said before that she loves to compete and she still wants to do it. There's a good chance she would still have wanted to carry on even if she'd won.

Click to expand...

Fair enough, and probably true; however (and I don't know if this is the case), wasn't Ilia Kulik in a similar position when he won his gold in 98? How old was he and how many World titles, if any, had he won? Pardon my ignorance Whatever the case, despite going pro, I find Ilia to have improved considerably in his artistry, which didn't do much for me in Nagano and stunned me by the time I saw him touring with SOI.

Sarah

Joesitz said:

Hey Kateri - I'm with you on Fumie. She is normally a great competitor, and unfortunately this past Worldfs was not good to her. Her LP in Dortmund was quite good, and she should have been top 10, but she was caught in the second group, and as Isaid before, it seems to me that, the judges wont allow skaters to move from one group to another.

Any news of her plans would be greatly appreciated.

Joe

Click to expand...

I don't care where she places - she skated wonderfully. She may not be as good technically as some of the others, but I don't see why she shouldn't remain eligible, since she is skating better than ever, *for her* and that's what counts. It's easy to forget that not everyone expects to medal, everyone has their own personal goals.
When she won bronze, she was so happy she couldn't stop crying - just like when she skated clean at worlds this year- and the newsgroups I was reading were saying "why did she cry? was she so disappointed not to get gold?"
Nooooooooo!!! it was a dream come true! she never expected it. Not everyone thinks that way! For some people, it's a dream come true just to make it to the free, or even qualify for the short.

*sigh* I'm ranting. I'll stop. But (and I know you weren't saying this, Joe) some people assume that if someone isn't winning medals, or placing top ten, they will see their career as pointless. Not true. Everyone has different goals.

The Olympics may be the high stakes compeition for figure skaters and a few other sports, but it isn't the end all for every sport. Seems like a "pick and choose" event, if you ask me. Basketball players may find it a thrill to end up on an Olympic team, but I bet they would trade a medal for an NBA contract anyday. I think the importance of the Oly gold diminishes a bit when only a few of the winners in a few sports can parlay that win into "big bucks" and name recognition.

it wouldn't be the Olympics, since the Olympics, as we have seen in the past, is probably the highest-stakes competition in the sport and those who excel are often the nerviest, unflappable, indomitable competitors who also have a reasonable to good amount of "total package"

Click to expand...

My basic question has always been, if the Olympics are not the "best of the best", then why is a medal worth more, importance wise, than the World competitions? Doesn't make sense............I think the competitors at times become "nervy, unflappable, and indomitable" because it is the Olympics......42

I think it's developed differently for every sport, as you mentioned, and where the NBA contract and championship is the prize to aspire to in basketball, the Oly gold would be the equivalent of that in FS; once every four years definitely upps the prestige and difficulty level, and I think that's been a huge factor in making the Olympics such a big deal in figure skating as opposed to other sports. It's also the event that brings figure skating to a larger audience as part of the winter olympics. And that's all I can think of for now

Sarah

Good points, Sarah............and I think the "every four years" factor has people (those who don't follow figure skating, only the Olympics ) confusing "a great skate" with "a great skater"............. 42

Amen, show42 Case in point: one of my favorite ladies singles skaters of all time, Chen Lu--she won 2 Olympic bronze medals, had many lovely programs, possibly at the height of her powers/her peak halfway between Lillehammer and Nagano (Worlds 95 & 96), and I think that having missed the top of the podium both times does nothing to diminish her greatness as a skater with the necessary jumps and breathtaking musicality, and yet having delivered top three performances at both Olympics also shows she was capable of consistently competing well and being the consummate artist she was and is, and boasting laudable longevity in a sport where most elite world-beaters don't last that long near the top of the ranks--AND she brought a (slightly underrotated, but a valiant effort after what she went through in 97) 3/3 to Nagano, knowing she'd need more on the tech mark in order to challenge the rest of the field...yaaaaaay Lulu

Sarah

Well, anything can happen in two years. But, I do hope that Kwan, Slutskaya, Arakawa, Cohen and Suguri will still be in fighting shape by the time the Olympics roll around. It has the potential to be one of the greatest ladies' Olympic contests.
I was also shocked to see Chen Lu go for that 3/3 in Nagano! She had never done that before and I was so proud of her for attempting it (especially at the end of her program). Even without an Olympic Gold or Silver she is still one of my all time favorites.

You know you've gone too far when you start to do the math and figure out when is the ideal time to have a child so they can peak near an olympics... just i case they want to be a skater, and just in case they are talented and want to compete competitively... I'm planning my medal winners birthdays and im not even engaged.... Therepy ??

Re: Re: Re: apologizing to the faint-hearted...

sarahmistral said:

Fair enough, and probably true; however (and I don't know if this is the case), wasn't Ilia Kulik in a similar position when he won his gold in 98? How old was he and how many World titles, if any, had he won? Pardon my ignorance Whatever the case, despite going pro, I find Ilia to have improved considerably in his artistry, which didn't do much for me in Nagano and stunned me by the time I saw him touring with SOI.

Sarah

Click to expand...

But I think it was different because Ilia was living in the US, I think that if Plush would have won Olys and turn pro, he would have been like Urmanov that sort of dissapear from the American view, then again (I don't know much of Ilia career) Evgeni stated way before Olys that he was planning of staying, if his health permits it until 2010

Actually Ilia was in a lesser position b/c he never won a world championship. I think he only had a world silver medal to his credit and the grand prix when he won his gold medal.

I think that even if Plush wins the next Olympics, he still won't have a top notch touring career here in the US. Look what happened to Ilia and SOI and how they decided not to renew his contract when they signed Yagudin. I guess the mentality is that one Russian male was enough for SOI. I don't really get it as Ilia is healthy and I actually think he's a better show skater than ALexie or Todd. Ilia was really versatile in SOI and skated to lots of different music and relates really well with the audience.

The mentality is always that an American skater is more of a draw than a foreign skater.

Kateri said:

I .*sigh* I'm ranting. I'll stop. But (and I know you weren't saying this, Joe) some people assume that if someone isn't winning medals, or placing top ten, they will see their career as pointless. Not true. Everyone has different goals.

Click to expand...

I know what you mean. Some posters used to think the Oly Gold Medal meant the 'best' and then Sarah won and she is still the reigning champ. Those posters don't say that any more.

Joe

Hey Soogar - I am sure Plush would be a big hit in a Euopean show much more than Tim would. I could tell in Dortmund, that Plush is beloved in Europe.

Joe

Joesitz:
You can tell from the audience reaction in Dortmund on the TV how they loved him. I think that American audiences would love him too (though the crazy programs would have to go), however the powers that be (IMG) seem to think that only American skaters can sell tickets. I don't even understand this mentality as Americans have always been open to being entertained by foreigners (check out Holllywood) and if I was paying money to see a show, I would want to see the best skater, American or foreign.

The money and work isn't as plentiful in Europe as it is in America. I think Katya said in an interview (this was on a board so don't hold it as gospel) that Ilia is travelling all over trying to pick up work as he can get it because two Russian skaters were too many for SOI. See how fast SOI will dump Alexei if they can sign on Plushy which I think is flat wrong. Ilia skated great for SOI and was really versatile and an OGM. How much is an OGM worth if the man had to scrap his way for work? I'm not saying he's poor or anything but how can SOI justify putting Todd on tour over Ilia. I'm not really knocking Todd b/c I love his skating but Ilia has an OGM and skates great. Why not get rid of Meno and Sand? Or why not keep them all and add Ilia, esp with the guest stars. Referring to the interview posted, SOI didn't even offer Ilia a guest spot when they were dying for skaters. He couldn't have been that bad a person that no one wants to work with him.

BTW, I think Plushy is smart to stay in Russia and Europe. He will always be beloved there and will remain beloved until he dies. If he goes to the US, they'll forget about him as soon as the next champion comes along.

I get a lot of German magazines and you read so much stuff about Boris Becker and he retired from tennis years ago. You also see a lot of stuff about Kati Witt as well and other athletes. Germans (and probably other European countries) really revere their athletes' accomplishments.

soogar said:

The money and work isn't as plentiful in Europe as it is in America. I think Katya said in an interview (this was on a board so don't hold it as gospel) that Ilia is travelling all over trying to pick up work as he can get it because two Russian skaters were too many for SOI. See how fast SOI will dump Alexei if they can sign on Plushy which I think is flat wrong. Ilia skated great for SOI and was really versatile and an OGM. How much is an OGM worth if the man had to scrap his way for work? I'm not saying he's poor or anything but how can SOI justify putting Todd on tour over Ilia. I'm not really knocking Todd b/c I love his skating but Ilia has an OGM and skates great.

Click to expand...

Maybe just because North American audience having the different view about the OGM? And seeing so many great NA skaters (Kurt, Elvis, Michelle) have never won an OGM, they just realize just the OGM is not be all end all. As someone said earlier, 'a greate skate' dose not equal 'a greater skater'.

I think that in Ilia's case, he had a great skate and he is a great show skater. I think that the powers that be think that NA audiences will only accept american skaters. I don't think that is the case at all.

Plushy tours in COI and gets a tremendous reception. I saw him live at Campbell's this past fall, and he got the biggest hand of all the men. US audiences do appreciate his showmanship.