Who will push the technical edge in Ladies FS?

skatedreamer · Jul 21, 2014

CanadianSkaterGuy said:
It's never going to happen, unfortunately. France isn't going to politic for her as much as the other disciplines. And her style will not likely be overhauled to satisfy the judges. She's not going to be in some frilly dress and skating to Swan Lake. And thank god for that. I hope she gets her 3-3 more solid and maybe even has the skate of her life to earn a GP medal this year, but that's high hopes. Oh well, hopefully she knows she's got fans who love her.

I enjoy MBM very much, even though am generally on the side howling for more elegance. CSG, your earlier post re: her "conviction and power" sums her up very well. She's got a dynamic style of her own and I hope she continues to develop and refine it. Crossing fingers!

Lucky Star · Jul 21, 2014

CanadianSkaterGuy said:
That's an interesting question. Obviously a 3Z+3T. But her lip on her 3F+3T basically reduces her GOE (unfortunately the GOE reduction is applied to both jumps in the combination, not just the lip..). I guess her salchow is probably her best bet to do a 3-3 other than her lutz (a 3L+3T is difficult for many skaters... I think I've only seen a handful of men go for it). And no, she doesn't have the ability to do a 3L on the back end.

I think her best strategy is to continue trying the 2A+3T, and clean up her 2A technique to ensure that can happen.

She can do two 3Lz-3T combinations, maybe even put one of them to the second half like this girl did
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4RASzpJH5I4
Or even 3Lz-3T-2T and 3Lz-3T. I think it's her safest bet, definitely better than learning 3S-3T in case her 2A isn't solid enough anymore. As for 3Lo-3T, it's a rare combination, but some skaters do it. Radionova for example after mistake on her 3Lz
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iScY-BZS4Z4

As for 3?-half loop-3S combination, IIRC Gracie tried it but it didn't really work. So my bet is two 3Lz-3Ts

mskater93 · Jul 21, 2014

It worked fine, but she had stamina problems later in her program doing 3Lz+3T and 3F+1Lo+3S

pohatta · Jul 21, 2014

If Gracie (or anyone without the 3A) does two 3-3 combinations, that leaves her two jumping passes with no triple. Is that an improvement?

Mathman · Jul 21, 2014

pohatta said:
If Gracie (or anyone without the 3A) does two 3-3 combinations, that leaves her two jumping passes with no triple. Is that an improvement?

That's a good point. These two programs have exactly the same base value.

3Lz+3T
3Lz+3T
3F
3Lo
3S
2A+2Lo+2T
2A

3Lz+3T
3Lz
3F+2T
3F
3Lo
3S
2A+2Lo+2T

Globetrotter · Jul 21, 2014

pohatta said:
If Gracie (or anyone without the 3A) does two 3-3 combinations, that leaves her two jumping passes with no triple. Is that an improvement?

Not sure why she will attempt such a layout. CoP's major flaw is it does not reward combinations sufficiently. Repeating 2 x 3T by tagging them at the backend of a combination is a lower BV. It may be better for her to stick to one 3Lz3T and go for a repeat 3Lz and repeat 3R (one in combination e.g. 3R2R). That leaves sufficient jumping passes for the other triples (wonky 3F, 3S) and a 2A that can be tagged as a 2-2-2 combo of 3 jumps which may be easier than her attempting the 2A3T since her 2A is wonky.

drivingmissdaisy · Jul 22, 2014

Mathman said:
That's a good point. These two programs have exactly the same base value.

3Lz+3T
3Lz+3T
3F
3Lo
3S
2A+2Lo+2T
2A

3Lz+3T
3Lz
3F+2T
3F
3Lo
3S
2A+2Lo+2T

Your example also shows why 3-3 combos should be rewarded. Repeating a 3T at the tail end of a combo is difficult, but it means you did two (lower scoring) 3T's instead of a 3F or 3Lo that earn more points. You could make the second example even easier by swapping the +3T and the final +2Lo+2T, making a program with no 3-3 have the same BV as one with a 3Z-3T, a 3F-3T, and an extra 2A.

amc987 · Jul 22, 2014

Might this make sense for Gracie to do?

3Z-3T
3Lo
2A-3T
3F
3Z-1/2 loop-3S
2A

Mrs. P · Jul 22, 2014

amc987 said:
Might this make sense for Gracie to do?

3Z-3T
3Lo
2A-3T
3F
3Z-1/2 loop-3S
2A

You need one more jumping pass and you're out of jump options since you've maxed out on your triples (repeat 3Z/3T) and your 2As.

With any layout, you can do a max of 7 triples, regardless of the combination, if you are missing the 3A (but have the other triples) or don't have a quad.

Mathman · Jul 22, 2014

^ But you could tack on a 2Lz+2Lo+2T for your last jumping pass and pick up an extra 5.72 points (with second half bonus)!

mskater93 · Jul 22, 2014

Not in the above example since there are already 3 combos. One of those 3 would have a 2T tacked on it with the changes to jump rules...

drivingmissdaisy · Jul 22, 2014

mskater93 said:
Not in the above example since there are already 3 combos. One of those 3 would have a 2T tacked on it with the changes to jump rules...

The 3Z-1/2 loop-3S is already a 3 jump combo, so it would just have to be a solo 2Lz.

aftertherain · Jul 23, 2014

amc987 said:
Might this make sense for Gracie to do?

3Z-3T
3Lo
2A-3T
3F
3Z-1/2 loop-3S
2A

Theoretically, yes, but it honestly looks to me (through ice show clips) that she's been struggling with her 2A...

mskater93 · Jul 23, 2014

drivingmissdaisy said:
The 3Z-1/2 loop-3S is already a 3 jump combo, so it would just have to be a solo 2Lz.

Not with the latest jump rules it's not.

gmyers · Jul 25, 2014

I think Polina Edmunds could but won't try. She's got all the main jumps time for artistry is american thinking.

Them combo inventiveness is comig from Russia but they aren't doing anything with 3a.

kwanatic · Jul 25, 2014

For those super-savvy COP people, I've got a question:

With the 3T, you can tack it onto the end of two other jumps in the FS: people do 3Lz-3T and 2A-3T

Could you do the same with another triple, like a 3F?

For example:
3Lz-3T
3F
2A
3Lz
3F-2A SEQ
3S
3L-2T-2L

You repeat the lutz and flip, both done solo and then in combination. Is this a valid layout?

gkelly · Jul 25, 2014

Yes, that is valid.

The caveat is that the 3F+2A+SEQ is only worth 80% of the value of 3F and 2A.

caelum · Jul 25, 2014

kwanatic said:
For those super-savvy COP people, I've got a question:

With the 3T, you can tack it onto the end of two other jumps in the FS: people do 3Lz-3T and 2A-3T

Could you do the same with another triple, like a 3F?

For example:
3Lz-3T
3F
2A
3Lz
3F-2A SEQ
3S
3L-2T-2L

You repeat the lutz and flip, both done solo and then in combination. Is this a valid layout?

Yeah, it's valid, but it's kind-of pointless because of the sequence deduction. Your jump layout has a BV of 43.98 (not accounting for any half-time bonuses) whereas a "standard" layout like,

3Lz + 3T
2A + 3T
3Lo + 2T + 2Lo
3S
3Lz
3F
2A

Has a BV of 44.50.

2A + 3Lo is the jump I'd imagine most girls would want (or any combination w/ a loop on the end of it) so you could do 2 triple loops.

drivingmissdaisy · Jul 25, 2014

gkelly said:
Yes, that is valid.

The caveat is that the 3F+2A+SEQ is only worth 80% of the value of 3F and 2A.

Does that make a 3F-2R a higher scoring combo?

caelum · Jul 25, 2014

drivingmissdaisy said:
Does that make a 3F-2R a higher scoring combo?

3F + 2A SEQ = (5.3 + 3.3)*0.8 = 6.88

3F + 2Lo = 5.3 + 1.8 = 7.10

3F + 2T = 5.3 + 1.3 = 6.60

Who will push the technical edge in Ladies FS?

skatedreamer

Lucky Star

mskater93

pohatta

Mathman

Globetrotter

drivingmissdaisy

amc987

Mrs. P

Uno, Dos, twizzle!

Mathman

mskater93

drivingmissdaisy

aftertherain

mskater93

gmyers

kwanatic

Check out my YT channel, Bare Ice!

gkelly

caelum

drivingmissdaisy

caelum

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