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Thread: Who will push the technical edge in Ladies FS?

  1. #136
    Love popcorn, hate horendous costumes Meoima's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jammers View Post
    Yes and now thanks to Patrick we get the Mens event in Sochi which had everyone trying quads and falling on their asses in one of the worst Mens competition in Olympic history. Not sure that is progress either.
    I think in Sochi the schedule killed men event. All had difficult layouts but they had little time to rest. They had to stay up very late after the SP, then woke up very early for practice, then performed their LP right after. In Saitama they all had one day to rest between SP and LP, despite 4 hours on bus a day from hotel to the arena.

  2. #137
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    Quote Originally Posted by Meoima View Post
    I think in Sochi the schedule killed men event. All had difficult layouts but they had little time to rest. They had to stay up very late after the SP, then woke up very early for practice, then performed their LP right after. In Saitama they all had one day to rest between SP and LP, despite 4 hours on bus a day from hotel to the arena.
    But then again, the top 3 ladies were all clean and most did 3-3s and had 7 triple programs. Did the ladies event follow the same time schedule? Could it just be the Olympic pressure that was not present at Worlds?

  3. #138
    Love popcorn, hate horendous costumes Meoima's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jimeonji View Post
    But then again, the top 3 ladies were all clean and most did 3-3s and had 7 triple programs. Did the ladies event follow the same time schedule? Could it just be the Olympic pressure that was not present at Worlds?
    Ladies have no quad and any 3A except Mao. Top men have 2-3 quads and 3As in their programs.

  4. #139
    Custom Title Kuan's Avatar
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    http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...q-E7eOzg#t=165

    Finally found it again. It is an interview about Sotnikova telling she wants to work on 4T or "give it a try" ( thats better translation). She tried some time ago and is telling it is quite scary compered to 3,5 revolotions ( I think she meens 3A), wich she had no problems with. Let´s wait and see.

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    There were plenty of splatty men's competitions over the past four years. I don't see Sochi as an aberration. While the schedule didn't help, I don't think it was only due to the Team Event. The men have always been more splatty than the women, even during 6.0 (see 1998 and 2000 Worlds). Sochi was an unfortunate case that happened at the Olympics, but it's hardly a surprise considering what happened in the build-up.

    I still believe the rule changes were what brought back the quad. It made the quad greater reward and lower risk. Chan himself now needed the quad to win (especially with his not-ideal triple axel), so quad it was for him. He certainly wouldn't have won any of his titles if he'd skated with no quad and a constantly unclean 3A. His closest competitor, Dai, would've gone for the quad no matter what Chan did, so I wouldn't say Chan brought back the quad.

    EDIT: To simplify things: I think the quad would've been needed to win competitions for the last four years even if Patrick Chan didn't exist. Whereas, if Elvis Stojko didn't exist, I'm not sure where we'd be today. Probably quad-ing anyway, occasionally, but we definitely wouldn't have had the golden SLC age.

  6. #141
    Custom Title FSGMT's Avatar
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    Am I the only one here who doesn't really care about skaters "pushing the edge ", as long as we see clean and beautiful skating? I really hope many of these girls will work on quality and they'll be able to produce good "complete" performances rather than attempting 3A/quads just to fall again and again competition after competition...

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    Quote Originally Posted by FSGMT View Post
    Am I the only one here who doesn't really care about skaters "pushing the edge ", as long as we see clean and beautiful skating? I really hope many of these girls will work on quality and they'll be able to produce good "complete" performances rather than attempting 3A/quads just to fall again and again competition after competition...
    I think we all want to see clean beautiful skating but with the amount of competition doing harder elements is the most objective way a skater can know that they'll get a higher score. Especially with the amount of competition in ladies FS in Russia, all of them are landing 3-3s and might continue to push as there are only 3 spots available for Worlds and another 3 for Euros. 3A/Quads are a bit unlikely but I mentioned on the first page we might see more 3-3-2s since it won't use up as many triples as once and it might be less risky than a 3A/Quad.

  8. #143
    Keeper of the Kweens OGM. MK's Winter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FSGMT View Post
    Am I the only one here who doesn't really care about skaters "pushing the edge ", as long as we see clean and beautiful skating? I really hope many of these girls will work on quality and they'll be able to produce good "complete" performances rather than attempting 3A/quads just to fall again and again competition after competition...
    I am with you on that. I miss program quality.

  9. #144
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    Quote Originally Posted by FSGMT View Post
    Am I the only one here who doesn't really care about skaters "pushing the edge ", as long as we see clean and beautiful skating? I really hope many of these girls will work on quality and they'll be able to produce good "complete" performances rather than attempting 3A/quads just to fall again and again competition after competition...
    The thing is- there are skaters out there who skate BEAUTIFUL programs. If not BEAUTIFULLY. Take someone like Carolina, or Kiira Korpi. These two ladies skate wonderfully, and they have well thought out programs, as well as great musicality and grace. Wonderful. But after a while, it gets stale and you need something to keep, not just the audience or the judges, but the actual program alive and exciting- hence the difficulty. Obviously, it can also be argued that an 8-triple program would be amazing to behold but without a structure, it's just a jumping clinic (hello Miki Ando). So really, one needs BALANCE in the program. Difficulty needs artistry and these two qualities will keep the sport thriving. As much as I would like to see everyone skate clean and prettily- I would be more than happy to see otherwise, knowing that an athlete is growing both stylistically and as a sportsman/woman. After all, why bother learning the tricks if you won't push it further?

    In that sense, I really do feel that in the last two quads Mao and Kim pushed the boundaries. One had a 3A, and the other a 3Lz-3T (at some point in their careers, two 3-3s.) They also had choreography, skating skills, performance skills and artistry. They represent the ideal figure skater who can cultivate all the qualities and employ them all.

    However, the lesson for the youngsters is that there are no shortcuts. You can't just expect to win medals because you landed a 3-3 or a 3As. Champions are not made overnight.

  10. #145
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    I'd like to see skaters attempt difficult elements if they have a decent chance of landing them. If Liza gets a 3A with over 60% success rate (and the other 40% isn't always full-on splat), hell yes, I'd like to see her bring it to competition, and I'd like to see her rewarded for it. However, if Liza's 3A has a 10% success rate at best and she's just attempting it on the off chance she hits it, I say forget it, work on skating cleanly and building PCS.

    I don't think we're going to see 3A/4T very much, but if someone can do it, I think they should.

  11. #146
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    Quote Originally Posted by pec0 View Post
    Im not a child. Im not good at English. Japanese people are not good at English. Sorry..
    And Americans are not good at Japanese-----and, too often, even English. You need not apologize

  12. #147
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sandpiper View Post
    Was Midori Ito really quick in the air? (I just find it hard to believe because of the leg wrap). It seemed like she just jumped so high--higher than 95% of the men in the field--that it really didn't matter what her rotation/technique was.
    Actually, midori Ito's leg wrap is more a semi wrap rather than a full leg wrap. She barely pushes 5 ft but her jumps are scarily huge and powerful. She does not rotate as quick as Mao or Lip but she had the classical delayed rotation and I think the big height allowed her time to complete the 3A and she was already unchecking by the time she was about to land. So to me, that is the perfect jump. The only one who comes remotely close is tonya Harding who has a similar short but powerful stature with big high jumps - at least before she messed herself up. I put her below Ito only because her 3A and other triples can be awfully tilted and you worry if she can even land without a splat.

  13. #148
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheCzar View Post
    In that sense, I really do feel that in the last two quads Mao and Kim pushed the boundaries. One had a 3A, and the other a 3Lz-3T (at some point in their careers, two 3-3s.)
    Kim hasn't push the boudary at all. She came out with "6 triples" when everyone is doing 7 triples, and expected to "win" as long as skating "cleanly". Kim is the symbol of "play it safe". Its defeat marks the arrival of the new era.

  14. #149
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    Quote Originally Posted by NMURA View Post
    Kim hasn't push the boudary at all. She came out with "6 triples" when everyone is doing 7 triples, and expected to "win" as long as skating "cleanly". Kim is the symbol of "play it safe". Its defeat marks the arrival of the new era.
    I think 'her retirement' would be the respectful way to phrase this

  15. #150
    Custom Title FSGMT's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NMURA View Post
    Kim hasn't push the boudary at all. She came out with "6 triples" when everyone is doing 7 triples, and expected to "win" as long as skating "cleanly". Kim is the symbol of "play it safe". Its defeat marks the arrival of the new era.
    Quote Originally Posted by satine94 View Post
    I think 'her retirement' would be the respectful way to phrase this
    Let's say that I agree with both of you... And that's why I like Yu-Na! She focused on beauty and quality, as Carolina did when she was injuried and in 2011-2012, and we all saw the results. Now 6 triples is not enough, we can all agree with that, but 7 triples+clean and beautiful skating should really be physically enough for these girls, and this is what I would like to see! As much as I prefer Yu-Na skating clean with 6 triples rather than Yu-Na attempting the 3Lo and falling on it 60% of the times

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