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Thread: Who will push the technical edge in Ladies FS?

  1. #166
    skating philosopher Mrs. P's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Icey View Post
    How quickly we forget:
    Tonya Harding was the first to complete a triple axel combination with the double toe loop.
    I thought it was Midori Ito?

  2. #167
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mrs. P View Post
    I thought it was Midori Ito?
    Midori was the first to do a 3/3 combination, but Harding was the first to do a 3a in combination

  3. #168
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mrs. P View Post
    I thought it was Midori Ito?
    I thought it was Midori too but apparently it was first done in 1991 at Skate America with Tonya, Midori first landed it in combination at NHK Trophy in the same year, Wikipedia says that Tonya is the first so I'm going to go with that. I can't find the dates for the competitions but Skate America is usually before NHK Trophy

  4. #169
    skating philosopher Mrs. P's Avatar
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    Wikipedia states that Ito was the first to land the Axel in combination in 1988, though it doesn't say where...

  5. #170
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mrs. P View Post
    Wikipedia states that Ito was the first to land the Axel in combination in 1988, though it doesn't say where...
    I think it was NHK (12/88): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kEqxigccU1s

  6. #171
    skating philosopher Mrs. P's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by drivingmissdaisy View Post
    She doesn't land it in combination though. But thanks for the video -- that was an awesome 3A!

  7. #172
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    Who knows, maybe Mirai will land a 3A in competition. I saw her attempting some at the rink today, and they're awesome! They're about half cheated, but she's landing on one foot and they're super high.

  8. #173
    Huge Scott Moir Fan Macassar88's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cooper View Post
    yeah.. like one hit wonder..
    That's the thing about sport though - it's about how you do it that time. Not your entire body of work. Otherwise Plushenko should win every competition because of his consistency with the quad.

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    I think Yuna absolutely did push the technical side of figure skating, just not in the same way people before her did. While she didn't have the seven triples of Michelle Kwan/Irina Slutskaya (the two dominant skaters of the previous era), she had a 3-3 that was more consistent than Slutskaya's, more difficult than Kwan's, and better quality than either (Irina had huge height but wonky landings, Michelle had beautiful landings but not very impressive height, Yuna had both).

    While Mao was more ambitious, I'd argue Yuna had a bigger impact, since many people are going for 3Lz-3T these days, and she is largely responsible. Granted, the reason women don't go for 3A isn't because they don't want to--it's because they can't. The reward isn't high enough, and the failure too costly, for it to be worth it.

    With Yuna's 3Lz-3T and Mao's 3A, they essentially brought back the Kristi Yamaguchi-Midori Ito era (and interesting enough, like Yuna, Kristi was missing one triple jump).

    Would I want to give Yuna a loop and a 7-triple LP? Of course! I'm sure Yuna would like that too. But I'd rather not seeing her going for the loop if she's going to fall on it most of the time, or if it'll lead to constant injuries. She deserved all her wins so I don't see what's the problem (scores circa. 2010 were ridiculous, but that's the judging system's problem, not Yuna's).

    Quote Originally Posted by lutzlover View Post
    Who knows, maybe Mirai will land a 3A in competition. I saw her attempting some at the rink today, and they're awesome! They're about half cheated, but she's landing on one foot and they're super high.
    The problem is, under the current rules, it's not worth going for 3A if it's UR. You get BV docked and you get GOE that's usually negative even if the jump wasn't bad outside of the UR. Mao does 3A because it's been her trademark since she was a teenager, and she'll probably go for it even if she gets 0 points. I can't see one of the current girls taking that risk.

  10. #175
    skating philosopher Mrs. P's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sandpiper View Post
    With Yuna's 3Lz-3T and Mao's 3A, they essentially brought back the Kristi Yamaguchi-Midori Ito era (and interesting enough, like Yuna, Kristi was missing one triple jump).
    This is a great point! And I'd argue the brought that era and kick it up a notch considering that Yuna and Mao had to do much harder technical programs under IJS than Kristi and Midori did in 6.0 in the late 1980s, early 1990s including more transitions, more spin revolutions, just more of everything really.

  11. #176
    Yuna's Ice Rink cooper's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Macassar88 View Post
    That's the thing about sport though - it's about how you do it that time. Not your entire body of work. Otherwise Plushenko should win every competition because of his consistency with the quad.
    but that's not considered as "pushing the technical side" though.. for me being consistent makes the impact more unforgettable..

  12. #177
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    According to Harding's bio on Wiki:

    At the Fall 1991 Skate America, Harding recorded three more firsts:

    The first woman to complete a triple axel in the short program;
    The first woman to successfully execute two triple axels in a single competition;
    The first ever to complete a triple axel combination with the double toe loop.

    So she was the first to do it in combo with A double toe loop is how I read that. What jump was Ito's 3A in combination with?

  13. #178
    Custom Title FSGMT's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Icey View Post
    According to Harding's bio on Wiki:

    At the Fall 1991 Skate America, Harding recorded three more firsts:

    The first woman to complete a triple axel in the short program;
    The first woman to successfully execute two triple axels in a single competition;
    The first ever to complete a triple axel combination with the double toe loop.

    So she was the first to do it in combo with A double toe loop is how I read that. What jump was Ito's 3A in combination with?
    I think it was the 3A+3T (during those years, landing the 3A on its own or doing it in combination in the FS almost didn't make any difference at all)

  14. #179
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    In reading Ito's bio, the only mention I can find of her doing the 3a in combination was one done in a practice session before a competition and that was a 3/3. A citation is requested by wiki for that. Ito had many firsts----first lady to do a 7 triple program, first to do a 3a at the Olympics.

    At the 1991 Grand Prix International de Paris – a pre-Olympic event in Albertville – Ito beat Kristi Yamaguchi by completing a triple axel and five other triple jumps in her free skate. During the warm-up before the free skate, she landed a triple Axel/triple toe loop jump combination, which has still not been equaled by any other female skater.[citation needed]

  15. #180
    Landing 3As in my dreams! skatedreamer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Macassar88 View Post
    Well consistency shouldn't. It's about how you do on the night.
    I understand what you mean about results on the night. Still, consistency does count because if your technique isn't reliable overall, don't you decrease your chances of hitting the jump when you need it?

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