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Thread: Who will push the technical edge in Ladies FS?

  1. #196
    Custom Title plushyfan's Avatar
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    I think Adelina Sotnikova or Elizaveta Tukhtamisheva.

  2. #197
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    Yuna is female Lysacek? Well, yeah, in the sense that his hardest 3-3 is the same as hers, and his hardest 3A combination was something Mao Asada could do.

    (Sorry, I probably shouldn't reply, but this is too hilarious).

  3. #198
    Custom Title chapis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sam-Skwantch View Post
    I hope Mirai lands a 3a and soon so we can stop talking about skaters who aren't going to be around to push the technical edge of skating. My money is on Adelina still but who knows really. So many girls are at the forefront of the technical limitations of the sport that nothing would really surprise me.

    Does anyone even keep tabs on Maé-Bérénice Méité? With her power I could see her doing both 3a and quad jumps.
    One random 3a is not enough, it will be relevant if she to land it in some competitions.

  4. #199
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    Correction: none of the jumps (no matter if it's a triple axel or a quad lutz) will be relevant if someone attempts and/or lands them if they don't *win* competitions with it. Otherwise why push the technical score if you're still winning on GOE?

  5. #200
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    ^Agreed. I wouldn't say Brandon Mroz pushed the technical side of FS simply 'cause he did quad lutz. Whereas Yuna's 3-3 has been instrumental to pushing the 3-3 in ladies FS. I think Mao had a certain impact because of some rule changes she created, but it remains to be seen if anyone after her will attempt 3A.

  6. #201
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    Quote Originally Posted by aromaticchicken View Post
    Correction: none of the jumps (no matter if it's a triple axel or a quad lutz) will be relevant if someone attempts and/or lands them if they don't *win* competitions with it. Otherwise why push the technical score if you're still winning on GOE?
    I think you hit the note spot on. If it got to the point where clearly you can't win just based on the current jump layouts, people will be motivated out of necessity. Just look at the men's competition post the Lysacek era. Everyone is going for a quad, it is virtually impossible to win without one unless you have everyone else go splat fest. If you have a somebody who lands the 3A and consistently start winning and leaves everyone else in the dust, I believe a lot more ladies will start revving up. Asada wasn't quite as consistent and probably had some headcase issue that limited her. Overall, you still need to be decently good at other elements and your mental strength in order to win.

  7. #202
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sandpiper View Post
    ^Agreed. I wouldn't say Brandon Mroz pushed the technical side of FS simply 'cause he did quad lutz. Whereas Yuna's 3-3 has been instrumental to pushing the 3-3 in ladies FS. I think Mao had a certain impact because of some rule changes she created, but it remains to be seen if anyone after her will attempt 3A.
    Sandpiper - curious, what other rule changes did Mao bring about?

  8. #203
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sandpiper View Post
    ^Agreed. I wouldn't say Brandon Mroz pushed the technical side of FS simply 'cause he did quad lutz. Whereas Yuna's 3-3 has been instrumental to pushing the 3-3 in ladies FS.
    Truth. And if there's one thing I like about IJS it's that it only rewards technical skill fully when it is executed cleanly (through GOE), not just barely squeaked on by. Yes it means that 'progress' in competitive jump attempts doesn't evolve as quickly, but when it *does* evolve and things like the men's quads and the ladies 3-3 become common, they're executed so much more cleanly. (barring events like the sochi men's splatfest, of course [emoji12]).


    I'd rather watch clean 3-3 from ladies than more sad, underrotated, and/or twofooted triple axel attempts "just because" (cough Kimmie meisner)

  9. #204
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    ^I actually disagree with you there, because I feel like COP has come to reward people who land some beautiful jumps and then splat on others. I'd rather have someone skate the entire program clean even if the jumps aren't all pretty. I'd like to see people try to save wonky jumps instead of just giving it up as -GOE. This is more of a problem in the men's field than the ladies, though.

    Quote Originally Posted by aromaticchicken View Post
    Sandpiper - curious, what other rule changes did Mao bring about?
    I'm certainly not the expert here, but isn't Mao the reason women who do 3A in the SP are allowed to not do the required 2A? In theory, this allows them to have an all-triple SP. Of course, it didn't benefit Mao much because she doesn't have a stable 3-3.

    Also, post-Vancouver, GOE (Yuna's strength) became less important relative to BV (Mao's strength), though that change had to do with the men's field as well.

  10. #205
    Size 7 Knife Boots Sam-Skwantch's Avatar
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    I think though the ability to save a jump that may have gone bad is underrated. Especially if saving a jump...slightly sloppy but landed...leads to the rest of the program being saved. It is my opinion that people tend to judge programs based on the individual jumps more often than not as opposed to how well the entire program was delivered. Sometimes I think it's alright to award more GOE as a program goes on or builds throughout. I guess I just don't think it's necassary to judge a jump always as seperate from everything else presented in the program. That may lead to people when they see the protocols and compare it to other skaters but to me at least it makes sense. At least under certain circumstances.

  11. #206
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    ^That's why I personally think any jump landed "6.0 clean" (AKA fully rotated, on one foot, no touchdown with hand, no major turn-out) deserves just plain ol' 0 GOE, while any type of hand-down/step-out on a solo jump deserves automatic -3. -2 for very minor two-foots that can barely be detected. As you've stated in the past, best to be generous to combos when they're already underrewarded.

    Anyway, my issues lie mainly with the men's field, which isn't the topic of the thread. The ladies, generally, don't go splat as much. Thank goodness!

  12. #207
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sam-Skwantch View Post
    I hope Mirai lands a 3a and soon so we can stop talking about skaters who aren't going to be around to push the technical edge of skating. My money is on Adelina still but who knows really. So many girls are at the forefront of the technical limitations of the sport that nothing would really surprise me.

    Does anyone even keep tabs on Maé-Bérénice Méité? With her power I could see her doing both 3a and quad jumps.
    I love MBM and I believe she's thoroughly underrated. Sure, she's not the most elegant skater out there but she skates with conviction and power, and really knows how to sell the feeling of a program.

  13. #208
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    Quote Originally Posted by CanadianSkaterGuy View Post
    I love MBM and I believe she's thoroughly underrated. Sure, she's not the most elegant skater out there but she skates with conviction and power, and really knows how to sell the feeling of a program.
    Really. MBM should be awarded more.

  14. #209
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tompson View Post
    Really. MBM should be awarded more.
    It's never going to happen, unfortunately. France isn't going to politic for her as much as the other disciplines. And her style will not likely be overhauled to satisfy the judges. She's not going to be in some frilly dress and skating to Swan Lake. And thank god for that. I hope she gets her 3-3 more solid and maybe even has the skate of her life to earn a GP medal this year, but that's high hopes. Oh well, hopefully she knows she's got fans who love her.

  15. #210
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sandpiper View Post
    I feel like COP has come to reward people who land some beautiful jumps and then splat on others. I'd rather have someone skate the entire program clean even if the jumps aren't all pretty.
    This is a legitimate problem with COP, that everything is so points-driven that the judges and skaters are downplaying the performance aspect. It's very much gone from doing things "well" to doing things "hard". Spins, for example, are generally unwatchable except for a few skaters who can do the difficult positions and do the spin well (Julia comes to mind). A skater is much better off doing a difficult element in a mediocre fashion rather than a less difficult element beautifully. I'd like to see that change.

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