Page 7 of 17 FirstFirst 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 ... LastLast
Results 91 to 105 of 243

Thread: Who will push the technical edge in Ladies FS?

  1. #91
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Posts
    116
    Quote Originally Posted by NMURA View Post
    Don't you remember 6 triples were beaten by 7 triples fair and square? If the low BV "queen" was daring enough, she could make a challenge again. These days, the meager 6 triples even can't win JGP events, though.
    Asada challenged herself but pretty much laughed at as you know. Asada is so vain, childish and stubborn. I think Asada did well to show the technical edge and possibility of the sport, so there is no need for other skaters anymore to take such risk. Skaters to compete at international events have responsibility as representative of mother country. If 6 triples and more back crossing to gain speed can win, it is just good. There will be lower risk of injury.

  2. #92
    Custom Title
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Russia
    Posts
    653
    Maybe Adelina could try 3A, on Russian Olympic broadcast they compared elements of different skaters (jumps for singles, throws and twists for pairs) and measured height and distance. They compared Mao's 3A and Adelina's 2A, Adelina's jump was higher, so it seems she has an ability to at least try. But I'm not sure if she needs that, IMO, first she needs to work on her 3F-3T to put it in programs (it looked good at Olympic practices), but if she ever wants to try something like 3A or quad - next season is the best time to do it. She has a reputation and PCS advantage over someone like Radionova or Pogorilaya to still make the team even if she isn't always clean and other youngsters are still in juniors. Maybe Liza if she gets herself together could try 3A (and she needs it more than Adelina), but I'm not sure about her. My bet is on someone like Gubanova, she is very young, but her jumps are huge and technically correct, or Tsurskaya, they will need difficulty when they are eligible to make the team, because competition in Russia is only going to get harder.
    As for Americans, Gold has an ability, but I don't think it will happen under Carroll. Mirai - no, I don't believe she could land and get it ratified, she has trouble to even rotate her triples. As for Japanese, I'm not sure about younger ones like Honda, but older girls have a lot of technical issues and flawed technique. Even Mao mostly needed her 3A to cover her lack of consistent 3-3 and her UR issues (and still she lost to Yuna who didn't even have 3Lo, let alone 3A, but had a consistent 3Lz-3T and other jumps)

  3. #93
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Posts
    116
    Quote Originally Posted by Lucky Star View Post
    Maybe Adelina could try 3A, on Russian Olympic broadcast they compared elements of different skaters (jumps for singles, throws and twists for pairs) and measured height and distance. They compared Mao's 3A and Adelina's 2A, Adelina's jump was higher, so it seems she has an ability to at least try. But I'm not sure if she needs that, IMO, first she needs to work on her 3F-3T to put it in programs (it looked good at Olympic practices), but if she ever wants to try something like 3A or quad - next season is the best time to do it. She has a reputation and PCS advantage over someone like Radionova or Pogorilaya to still make the team even if she isn't always clean and other youngsters are still in juniors. Maybe Liza if she gets herself together could try 3A (and she needs it more than Adelina), but I'm not sure about her. My bet is on someone like Gubanova, she is very young, but her jumps are huge and technically correct, or Tsurskaya, they will need difficulty when they are eligible to make the team, because competition in Russia is only going to get harder.
    As for Americans, Gold has an ability, but I don't think it will happen under Carroll. Mirai - no, I don't believe she could land and get it ratified, she has trouble to even rotate her triples. As for Japanese, I'm not sure about younger ones like Honda, but older girls have a lot of technical issues and flawed technique. Even Mao mostly needed her 3A to cover her lack of consistent 3-3 and her UR issues (and still she lost to Yuna who didn't even have 3Lo, let alone 3A, but had a consistent 3Lz-3T and other jumps)
    That's good news to make Asada most happy. It will be greate to see 3A again in future.

  4. #94
    Custom Title
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Posts
    1,019
    Sotnikova's (toe) jumps are high but she doesn't have fast rotation. That's why she often receives UR calls. Maybe that could be overlooked in Russia but not everywhere. Doubtful about her 3A, let alone the quad. She has some advantages in reputation to allow her a few mistakes, though. Anyway I hope she tries more difficult jumps than the 3Lz-3T, which can be done by a 11 y/o novice girl these days. I don't think Sotnikova is seriously aiming for the next Olympics. She may need motivations other than medals.

    Tuktamysheva -- she doesn't have much to lose now. At least, she can try not worrying too much about results. But if she can't improve her SP consistency, even landing a lucky 3A won't be enough to go anywhere higher than GPS.

    Lip and Radionova -- They will be able to make european/world teams as long as they skate reasonably clean. So they don't have strong motivation to make technical challenges. Also their 2A are small and rather ugly.

  5. #95
    🌸🐱❄🐱❄🐱🌸 jennyanydots's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Posts
    227
    Quote Originally Posted by Lucky Star View Post
    Maybe Adelina could try 3A, on Russian Olympic broadcast they compared elements of different skaters (jumps for singles, throws and twists for pairs) and measured height and distance. They compared Mao's 3A and Adelina's 2A, Adelina's jump was higher, so it seems she has an ability to at least try. But I'm not sure if she needs that, IMO, first she needs to work on her 3F-3T to put it in programs (it looked good at Olympic practices), but if she ever wants to try something like 3A or quad - next season is the best time to do it. She has a reputation and PCS advantage over someone like Radionova or Pogorilaya to still make the team even if she isn't always clean and other youngsters are still in juniors. Maybe Liza if she gets herself together could try 3A (and she needs it more than Adelina), but I'm not sure about her. My bet is on someone like Gubanova, she is very young, but her jumps are huge and technically correct, or Tsurskaya, they will need difficulty when they are eligible to make the team, because competition in Russia is only going to get harder.
    As for Americans, Gold has an ability, but I don't think it will happen under Carroll. Mirai - no, I don't believe she could land and get it ratified, she has trouble to even rotate her triples. As for Japanese, I'm not sure about younger ones like Honda, but older girls have a lot of technical issues and flawed technique. Even Mao mostly needed her 3A to cover her lack of consistent 3-3 and her UR issues (and still she lost to Yuna who didn't even have 3Lo, let alone 3A, but had a consistent 3Lz-3T and other jumps)
    Actually a 2A having more height than a 3A isn't out of the ordinary. A skater has to pull in sooner on a 3A so that the height of the jump is often compromised. Agree that Adelina isn't a quick rotator. She's better off working on correcting her flutz and underrotated 3-3's.

  6. #96
    Custom Title
    Join Date
    Feb 2014
    Posts
    123
    Quote Originally Posted by Lucky Star View Post
    Maybe Adelina could try 3A, on Russian Olympic broadcast they compared elements of different skaters (jumps for singles, throws and twists for pairs) and measured height and distance. They compared Mao's 3A and Adelina's 2A, Adelina's jump was higher, so it seems she has an ability to at least try.
    Huh do you have a link for that? I wonder how the Russians do their math. I haven't seen any ladies' 2A's that are remotely close to the height of Mao's 3A. Although some of the numbers may change when I do a more detailed analysis, using air time as a proxy for height, for the Olympic FS so far it looks like Mao's 3A is around 17/25 = 0.68 seconds (counting number of frames in the air from a video running at 25 FPS), while Adelina's was 14/25 = 0.56 seconds. Adelina's, Yuna's, and Carolina's 3Lz's (the first jump of the program) were all about 15/25 = 0.60 seconds, by comparison. Mao's SP 3A where she fell was around 33/50 = 0.66 seconds, to give you an idea of how much height (or rotation, etc.) she has.

    Granted, Mao's own 2A later in the program was also 14/25 = 0.56 seconds, so it's certainly possible that if Adelina puts a 3A (or 2A) at the beginning of her program it will have similar height as Mao's 3A, seeing as how their 2A's in the middle of the program had pretty much the same height (Yuna's and Carolina's were smaller). But that's significantly different than saying that Adelina's 2A in the middle of her program was higher than Mao's 3A at the top of hers.

    Yes I've read that a 3A is not necessarily higher than a 2A (the additional revolution comes from getting into the rotation position earlier as well as having a tighter position -- Mao's rotation speed in her 3A is slightly faster than Yulia's in her 3Lz IIRC), but it seems like for the ladies so far this holds up; Mao's 3A is simply higher than any other jump in the Olympics that I've measured so far.

  7. #97
    Custom Title
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Posts
    3,630
    Quote Originally Posted by NMURA View Post
    Anyway I hope she tries more difficult jumps than the 3Lz-3T, which can be done by a 11 y/o novice girl these days.
    To be fair, most of those 11 year old girls won't be able to do the 3-3's after puberty.

  8. #98
    Custom Title
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Posts
    1,019
    Quote Originally Posted by drivingmissdaisy View Post
    To be fair, most of those 11 year old girls won't be able to do the 3-3's after puberty.
    To be fair, those 11 y/o girls are relatively recent phenomena. Probably no one has reached puberty yet.

  9. #99
    Medalist
    Join Date
    Mar 2014
    Location
    Oslo, Norway
    Posts
    83
    Quote Originally Posted by Vanshilar View Post
    Huh do you have a link for that? I wonder how the Russians do their math. I haven't seen any ladies' 2A's that are remotely close to the height of Mao's 3A. Although some of the numbers may change when I do a more detailed analysis, using air time as a proxy for height, for the Olympic FS so far it looks like Mao's 3A is around 17/25 = 0.68 seconds (counting number of frames in the air from a video running at 25 FPS), while Adelina's was 14/25 = 0.56 seconds. Adelina's, Yuna's, and Carolina's 3Lz's (the first jump of the program) were all about 15/25 = 0.60 seconds, by comparison. Mao's SP 3A where she fell was around 33/50 = 0.66 seconds, to give you an idea of how much height (or rotation, etc.) she has.

    Granted, Mao's own 2A later in the program was also 14/25 = 0.56 seconds, so it's certainly possible that if Adelina puts a 3A (or 2A) at the beginning of her program it will have similar height as Mao's 3A, seeing as how their 2A's in the middle of the program had pretty much the same height (Yuna's and Carolina's were smaller). But that's significantly different than saying that Adelina's 2A in the middle of her program was higher than Mao's 3A at the top of hers.

    Yes I've read that a 3A is not necessarily higher than a 2A (the additional revolution comes from getting into the rotation position earlier as well as having a tighter position -- Mao's rotation speed in her 3A is slightly faster than Yulia's in her 3Lz IIRC), but it seems like for the ladies so far this holds up; Mao's 3A is simply higher than any other jump in the Olympics that I've measured so far.
    Exactly. A great jumper would be someone who can combine delaying the twisting as long as possible to achieve more height and someone who can then twist quickly enough to fit in the rotations before landing. It's a very difficult thing to do. Midori Ito always comes to my mind when considering these two criteria.

  10. #100
    Love popcorn, hate horendous costumes Meoima's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2014
    Location
    North of the world
    Posts
    4,132
    Quote Originally Posted by gravy View Post
    Exactly. A great jumper would be someone who can combine delaying the twisting as long as possible to achieve more height and someone who can then twist quickly enough to fit in the rotations before landing. It's a very difficult thing to do. Midori Ito always comes to my mind when considering these two criteria.
    When it comes to jumping ability, Midori Ito is =

  11. #101
    Size 7 Knife Boots Sam-Skwantch's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Location
    At the Rink
    Posts
    3,199
    Quote Originally Posted by NMURA View Post
    To be fair, those 11 y/o girls are relatively recent phenomena. Probably no one has reached puberty yet.
    Most 11yr olds haven't. What is the point here?

  12. #102
    Custom Title
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Posts
    1,765
    Was Midori Ito really quick in the air? (I just find it hard to believe because of the leg wrap). It seemed like she just jumped so high--higher than 95% of the men in the field--that it really didn't matter what her rotation/technique was.

  13. #103
    Yulia and Ruslena team forever! Alba's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2014
    Location
    Milan
    Posts
    3,375
    Can this be done on ice? Maybe not the ladies but men? https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=803439213014184

  14. #104
    Custom Title
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Posts
    1,019
    Quote Originally Posted by Sam-Skwantch View Post
    Most 11yr olds haven't. What is the point here?
    Those girls who could do 3Lz-3T at the age of 11 have not reached puberty yet. So the general tendency is unknown. I estimate more than 30 ladies can do 3Lz-3 or 3F-3 worldwide. This number is close (a little less) to men's quad jumpers.

  15. #105
    Custom Title
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Posts
    1,765
    Quote Originally Posted by Alba View Post
    Can this be done on ice? Maybe not the ladies but men? https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=803439213014184
    Why not? I think some men already leap that high on their death drops.

Page 7 of 17 FirstFirst 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •