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Thread: Sotnikova to headline field at NHK Trophy

  1. #61
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    but Gallagher *did* insult adelina in the article: by saying her win is a "farce" and that yuna was "robbed", he is making a qualitative statement about adelina's performance. he is not saying adelina's win was simply surprising or even questionable. He is saying her performance was clearly outrageously inferior to yuna's. that's an insult.

  2. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sandpiper View Post
    And my main point is, I don't know if he's an Adelina hater. The article makes him sound like one (to me), which doesn't speak well about the quality of the writing.
    As an excellent writer once said, "There's the rub." He sounds like an Adelina hater to me, too, and IMO he sounds a bit obsessed as well. Whereupon I'm going to try to take my own advice and...[insert Frozen reference here ]

  3. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sandpiper View Post
    Just because she's living a better life than you and I doesn't mean this clown of a journalist should insult her endlessly for something that wasn't even her fault. In an article about a totally different topic (the GP series). By this logic, there are very few people we should even treat like people: such pointless sympathy should be reserved only for those who'd be "emotionally shattered and broken" otherwise. Everyone else, let's treat them like rotting garbage! I mean, they're not devastated, so we haven't done anything wrong.
    Lets just say there are billions of people in the world I would reserve any sympathy for before a brattish kid with a bad attitude who was gifted the most undeserved Olympic gold in history. Why feel sorry for her, since a few journalists I am sure she doesn't even know exist say a few mean things about her. Boo hoo, bring out the hankies. She has an Olympic gold at home which should have been an Olympic bronze or even 4th place finish, so she is one of the luckiest people on the planet, not one to feel compassion and sympathy for in the least.

  4. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sandpiper View Post
    Also, the part about Arakawa is confusingly worded -- it could be read as her being the oldest to win Japanese nationals, or the oldest to win the Olympics... but the latter is obviously untrue. I'm not sure about the former.
    Oldest to win the Olympics in modern times would have been OK. Only Madge Syers in 1908 and Magda Julin in 1920 were older.

    Here is a fun website about that:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...skating_by_age

    About Japanese Nationals, Arakawa did not win the national championship the year she won the Olympics. She got third behind Suguri and Asada (too young for the Olympics). Arakawa did win Nationals in 1997 and in 1998 when she was a teenager.

    I think Mao Asada, age 22, was the oldest to win Japanese Nationals before Suzuki (one year before). This would have made a better comparison for Mr. Gallagher.

    Factoid: I think the youngest Japanese National Champion was Etsuko Inada, age 11 in 1935. She finished 10th at the 1936 Olympics at age 12.

    However, if I were being paid to write a column on skating, hopefully I wouldn't spend four opening paragraphs ranting about apostrophes before getting into the GP series.
    That's the problem. In newspaper writing you have to give the reader something of interest in the first paragraph or two. Otherwise the reader will just turn the page and go on to the World Cup coverage.

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    Would Mao be the oldest to win the Olympics if she wins in 2018?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Icey View Post
    How much a skater wants "it' is hardly the only thing that determines who gets it imo. If that were true, I suspect there would have been a whole lot of different outcomes. I doubt Hughes wanted "it" anymore than Kwan or Slutskaya.
    Kwan and Slutskaya wanted it (and so did Cohen and Suguri), but in the LP only Sarah skated like she wanted it. This seems to be more important at the Olympics than at other competitions. If you give it all you've got the judges tend to overlook a lot of other stuff. Elizabeth Manley's long program at the 1988 olympics is another example.

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    Liz in 88 skated amazing and still lost to Witt's much easier technical program, which was also skated cautiously. So I don't think that is a good example. The only courtesy they extended her is allowing her to beat Thomas's Zamboni act.

  8. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by pangtongfan View Post
    Would Mao be the oldest to win the Olympics if she wins in 2018?
    Yes, by about 100 days.

    Quote Originally Posted by pangtongfan View Post
    Liz in 88 skated amazing and still lost to Witt's much easier technical program, which was also skated cautiously. So I don't think that is a good example. The only courtesy they extended her is allowing her to beat Thomas's Zamboni act.
    Manley won the long program, 7 first place ordinals to 2, losing the votes only of East Germany and the Soviet Union to Witt.

    But she was too far back in figures (4th) and the short program (3rd).

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Figure_..._.28top_8.29_2

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    Witt shouldn't have even been 2nd in the long program. She should have been 3rd behind Ito. Then again maybe Manley didn't deserve to beat Ito in the long program either, but I would have probably given Manley 1st in the long and Witt 3rd to ensure Manley passing Witt after literally blowing her to bits in the LP. Witt and Manley were both gifted majorly in the short program, were they probably should have been 5th and 6th, but that would have already had Manley winning with the same other program placements (no more than 1 spot apart either way in the short). Witt's figures were probably a huge gift too based on the footage I saw of them from ABC. I am no Manley fan, but it seems pretty obvious she overall would have deserved to beat Witt in that competition. It wasn't anywhere near the farce of Sochi, and I am glad in a way Witt got the 2nd OGM for her legacy which she fully earned for years of what she brought to the sport IMO, but she definitely defended her gold with a bit of help from both luck and reputation.

    It sucks Thomas couldn't hold it together in the LP as I badly wanted her to win that year. She was really the best overall skater that year if she put it together IMO, considering figures, her technical skills, her improved artistry, her strong short programs. She is an amazing women though, now a doctor and with a wonderful family, and still one of my favorites today. I love to see her interview anytime someone gets a chance to talk to her, although I miss her amazing skating.

    It is also too bad there were figures that year or Ito would probably have cleaned up. Even though she didn't win the free skating programs, she probably would have if there were no figures as the whole dynamic of the competition would be different, and especialy as her reputation would have built up many years earlier if figures weren't around.

    It is also too bad Kadavy was politically only the #3 American, placed low in figures to almost be out of medal contention from the start, and then got sick and had to WD from the long program (after being hosed majorly in the short program to pull her further out of contention anyway). Such a gorgeous skater when she was on (as infrequent as it was as an amateur).

  10. #70
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    Pangtongfan, "Adelina does not deserve this crap" does not mean she's the most pitiful, sympathetic person on earth. The Sochi result isn't some kind of world-ending catastrophe as Gallagher seems to think. My sympathy isn't finite--asking a journalist to stop writing crappy articles doesn't mean I'm suddenly immune to starving children in Africa. But I'm willing to drop this matter in our conversations. It seems like we're on completely different wavelengths despite sharing the similar opinions on the result, so maybe it's time to take Skatedreamer's advice and "let it go."

    What was incredibly impressive about Manley's 1988 LP? I'm not asking this as a joke--I genuinely want to know. I already posed this question in the Stupid Questions thread and got a lot of "Dunno" (And Mathman's "She deserves credit for skating her heart out at home"). Manley landed the same number of triples as Witt and had no jump combinations at all. Her lines, movement, and performance skills were a lot worse than Witt's, though I give her credit for doing a lot of skating (even if it was jittery) rather than Witt's posing. Witt's jumping repertoire might be outdated, but I'd argue Manley's performance is even more so. I think Manley actually benefited from the technical mark being the tiebreaker back then.

    Judging by the footage, Witt was likely gifted on figures though. Not sure about the SPs. If anyone was robbed, it was Ito, but she was so far back after figures it wouldn't matter if she won the LP. I found Thomas's Carmen an incredibly meh program, but it's a shame she couldn't hold it together. She actually had the jump combinations that neither Witt nor Manley had, and could skate decent figures unlike Ito.

  11. #71
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    In the short program Thomas, Kadavy, and Ito all skated much better performances than either Witt or Manley. Trenary arguably should have been above too. Witt had the easiest combination. Manley had an easier jump combination than Thomas, Kadavy, Ito (by far), Trenary (by far), and had two shaky elements/small msitakes (shaky combination landing, camel spin bobble), which none of the other top women (besides Trenary on her much harder jump combnation) had, and an immature presentation, although her jumps and spins were outstanding quality otherwise and would have had her high without the two bobbles.

    Manley's LP had a huge triple lutz and a triple loop which contrasted to Witt doing nothing harder than a triple salchow. Remember a triple lutz or triple flip which a really rare thing back then. She also skated with amazing energy, speed, and verve, which Witt definitely did not that night. Her presentation style was somewhat similar to the short but much more mature and sophisticated in how it was presented IMO. Witt's Carmen was artistically overrated too with all the non stop posing, and not much actual skating. Her previous programs were much better artistically, and some of them technically too.

  12. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by satine94 View Post
    Wow. I was not expecting the article to be so rancid..
    It's Jack Gallagher, what else do you expect.

  13. #73
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    Just a friendly reminder that there are still threads where you can discuss the Olympics results/judging to your heart's content.

    http://www.goldenskate.com/forum/sho...work-in-the-FS
    http://www.goldenskate.com/forum/sho...roversy-Thread
    http://www.goldenskate.com/forum/sho...-about-judging
    Last edited by Mrs. P; 07-11-2014 at 12:36 PM.

  14. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alba View Post
    Which she didn't win. So?
    Hopefully she will win her GPs this season. Now that she has a reputation of being one of the best in the world maybe she can focus less on packing in transitions and explore her artistic side more as she does in her lovely exhibitions.

  15. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by drivingmissdaisy View Post
    maybe she can focus less on packing in transitions and explore her artistic side more as she does in her lovely exhibitions.
    ITA . Her summer exhibitions were fresh and interesting with SS on display front and center. Did you see that video I posted the other day of her training in pairs skating. She is quite capable of delivering an emotional program. I'm sure good old Jack G. has written about her quality exhibitions this summer in Japan and how well she was recieved.

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