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Thread: PCS academy

  1. #31
    Landing 3As in my dreams! skatedreamer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mathman View Post
    T

    This program meets all IJS criteria for interpretation. Michelle Kwan (age 15), Romanza, 1886 worlds SP.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1imuQWeIi4Q
    I know Michelle is getting older, but 1886?

    Seriously, Romanza is an exquisite performance in every way, with musicality that even most "mature" skaters only dream of. One of her very best, IMO -- right up there with Lyra Angelica.

  2. #32
    Custom Title Mathman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sandpiper View Post
    Skaters already get BV and GOE reduction for URs. I really can't get behind punishing them (Dai in this case) in PCS too when URs are already overpunished compared to falls.
    That's why I used the language "opportunity loss." You don't punish anyone, it's just that he missed the opportunity to score even higher (by presenting a beautifully controlled flowing edge, right in time with, and in character with, the music).

    A fall is the same thing. If you fall, you are not marked down in PCS but you might miss out on the opportunity to interpret the music to its fullest.

  3. #33
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    The commentary on the Jackson video is too intrusive for me to be able to hear the music and evaluate how well the skater interprets it. :(

    The Cranston one is great for this purpose since there's no commentary over the music.

    Interpretation criteria for singles skaters:
    *Effortless movement in time to the music (timing)
    *Expression of the music's style, character and rhythm
    *Use of finesse to reflect the nuances of the music

    Allowing for the possibility that the audio and video are not perfectly synched on the youtube clip...

    My general comment is that often the movement was right on the music, note for note, beat by beat.

    Occasionally, especially in the opening section, it followed the general mood and style, even the forward momentum, of the musical line, but the downbeats or phrasing of the movement didn't match up with the downbeats and phrasing of the music -- a new phrase might start where Cranston was still in the middle of a spin or the previous movement phrase, or he'd start a new movement phrase before the musical phrase had concluded.

    A few times, the music was doing something interesting and Cranston was just taking a few strokes in his own rhythm.

    He was really into this performance physically, really over his skates and put a lot of energy into it throughout. Although my first thought isn't "wow that looks effortless," I never felt that it was labored or effortful -- I'd give good credit for the "effortless movement" part of the first bullet point and note that the "in time to the music part" was usually quite good.

    The movement style for each section of the program matched the style of the music very well. He hit a lot of big accents in the music with big gestures or jumps, although there was one musical flourish early on that seemed to call for an arm or leg gesture and was pretty much ignored.

    He hit the beginnings and endings of larger sections very clearly.

    There were a lot of nuances of movement matching musical nuances, including some spin entries and position changes. I especially enjoyed the way the butterfly-knee spin at the very end went with the music. But that made the few missed opportunities perhaps more disappointing than with a skater from whom I would expect less.

    All in all, I'm thinking that the expression of the idea of each musical section was Outstanding, but because of a few lapses in rhythm and a few missed nuances I'd consider those aspects only Very Good. Credit for choosing music that demands precision and living up to it so often. So I might go with an Interpretation score in the 9.0 range.

  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mathman View Post
    That's why I used the language "opportunity loss." You don't punish anyone, it's just that he missed the opportunity to score even higher (by presenting a beautifully controlled flowing edge, right in time with, and in character with, the music).

    A fall is the same thing. If you fall, you are not marked down in PCS but you might miss out on the opportunity to interpret the music to its fullest.
    So should Dai's PCS be "lower than they otherwise would be" because he had one UR? While UR is a problem, I think the PCS hit for UR should be negligible compared to falls. URs are often so borderline anyway--are people going to explain away Mao's Saitama PCS being lower than Carolina's because Mao had URs? (I probably don't need to answer, but: No. The PCS scores were ridiculous and simply used to keep Carolina afloat. Whether you think she deserved bronze or not--and I'm personally "okay" with her bronze--there's no way to justify those PCS).

  5. #35
    still fangirling for Toller... el henry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gkelly View Post
    Cool!

    I'll do some analysis after I get home from work tonight.

    In case anyone else wants to join in, here are some other great Canadian champion men's performances to analyze, starting with Interpretation.

    Of course it's not fair to compare programs from different eras, with different rules, in terms of TES or who would have won if they were competing against each other. But I do think it can be meaningful to look at 6.0 programs in terms of the program components, with 2014 eyes.

    These are all great skaters in their own ways, so we would expect high scores in general. But how good do we think they were they specifically at Interpretation, as defined in the criteria listed above, in these particular performances?

    Donald Jackson 1962

    Toller Cranston 1974

    Brian Orser 1987

    Kurt Browning 1990

    Elvis Stojko 1995

    Jeff Buttle 2008
    I do not know nearly enough to comment on the PCS, but thank you so much for this! I had never heard of Donald Jackson, and what a wonderful performance. For me, for the time and place, (and although alive, I was sadly too young to have been watching), far more compelling than PChiddy's will-he-or-won't he splat.

    But OMG even 50 years ago, Carmen?

  6. #36
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    I watched the Kurt Browning video earlier and it was a solid skate in terms of Interpretation. There were moments that seemed a bit too manufactured for my taste(weird leg lifts) but all were done to fit the music. I usually find one moment in a performance and use it as a pinnacle so to speak. Whether its a good moment or a tragic one. I then formulate and add or subtract from there. This is probably an inefficient way to score a criterion but whatever....I'm not a trained judge.

    For me the pinnacle or stand out moment was right after he landed his huge and lofty 2A-1L-3S. He transitioned out right in character and displayed complete control over the program. He later did a 3a-2L and had similar if not smoother transition back into the program. While these are more likely better suited as transition marks the way he used his arms and displayed such confidence sold me as to his interpretation of the music and the feelings of it. It helped that it was right in time to the music. Plus I think certain aspects in judging are ok to count movements or expression in multiple catagories. I mean if you do a spin in time with the music you can score your TES,INT, and Execution all in the same element...IMO at least. I think certain spins can and should count toward SS also but we'll probably get to that later.

    Speaking of spins....Another moment that stuck out was what I believe to be a flying camel spin that had a fast jump into it but landed it squarely and rotated at slower speed than I expected. It helped accent the music too. I guess to me interpretation is control over the program and the ability to use your skating to become the music or showcase it.

    On a side note this type of music kind of leaves me cold. If I don't want to listen to it in my car or while running..etc etc...it kind of harms my personal connection. Sorry but that's how I feel. That said....he interpreted it very well and I can't take points away for not liking the music.

    Final COP score for INT: 9.25

    I don't think I would ever give a 10 but this is only a couple notches short of 9.75 and I think that's fair....in this day and age at least.

  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Meoima View Post
    My favorite program of PChiddy, except the fall: http://youtu.be/7dBI6kQ4riM
    This is the same program without fall. It's almost perfect: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MZFcnmMql-U

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