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Thread: Finlandia - Voronov's marks

  1. #1
    Rinkside
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    Finlandia - Voronov's marks

    He was not given any points for his 3Lo+2T+2Lo. It was listed as an invalid element. Anyone able to explain that rule please. It would have been his third combo. Rippon also had three combos but was given credit for all of them. Is it because his other two combos had only double jumps for the second jump? Thanks

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    I believe it's because he broke the zayack rule by doing 3 2Ts. This season the zayack rule includes doubles too.

  3. #3
    Rinkside
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    Ah! Thanks, yes that must be it.

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    Kisdom Title TMC's Avatar
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    That's it. If you Zayak in a combo, the whole combo is "asterisked" or invalidated.

    Pretty harsh - this certainly requires skaters and their coaches to think of all possible scenarios and plan for everything.

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    It's so dumb and so absurd and increasingly dumb and absurd that just the illegal jump is not invalidated like it was first done and you can see on display in slutskaya marks in 2005 worlds.

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    Custom Title FSGMT's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gmyers View Post
    It's so dumb and so absurd and increasingly dumb and absurd that just the illegal jump is not invalidated like it was first done and you can see on display in slutskaya marks in 2005 worlds.
    Exactly.

  7. #7
    Kisdom Title TMC's Avatar
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    I was explaining this rule to my folks on the way back from the rink, and they were amazed at how difficult this makes things. They actually asked if the skaters can wear a little earpiece so that their coach can give them advice like "now that you doubled that intended triple don't forget you MUST change that planned double toe into a triple toe, or if you feel you can't get it done, go for a double loop..." etc etc
    I would have added a laughing smiley after that if this rule weren't so seriously awful

  8. #8
    Love popcorn, hate horendous costumes Meoima's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gmyers View Post
    It's so dumb and so absurd and increasingly dumb and absurd that just the illegal jump is not invalidated like it was first done and you can see on display in slutskaya marks in 2005 worlds.
    Mah the rule is just getting more and more stupid. I agree.

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    Quote Originally Posted by gmyers View Post
    It's so dumb and so absurd and increasingly dumb and absurd that just the illegal jump is not invalidated like it was first done and you can see on display in slutskaya marks in 2005 worlds.
    Soo...you want him to be given credit for a 3Lo-2Lo? How can you justify that? You wouldn't know how the jump combination would have gone without a 2T. Maybe Voronov used the 2T to rebalance himself before the 2Lo and if he had to do the 2Lo out of the 3Lo he might have fallen. You just don't know.

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    Quote Originally Posted by karne View Post
    Soo...you want him to be given credit for a 3Lo-2Lo? How can you justify that? You wouldn't know how the jump combination would have gone without a 2T. Maybe Voronov used the 2T to rebalance himself before the 2Lo and if he had to do the 2Lo out of the 3Lo he might have fallen. You just don't know.
    Combos do not have a value all their own. The combo value is based on each individual jump. So because they are scored that way it would be proper to just drop the offending jump. I supported the rule because of the idea that a combo is one thing but now I don't.

  11. #11
    Skating is art, if you let it be. Blades of Passion's Avatar
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    It's really just comical at this point how little the ISU understands their own judging system. They are like some bumbling surgeon slicing a patient open all over the place. This new rule was good in the sense that it has stopped people from planning those dumb +2Toe+2Toe combinations in their programs, but it makes objective scoring of programs an even bigger joke. Doubling a jump means than an entire three-jump combination later in the program is worth 0 points? In what reality does that make sense to anyone with a brain bigger than an ant?

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    Size 7 Knife Boots Sam-Skwantch's Avatar
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    I can't stop laughing and I believe you to be correct.

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    I really don't understand why one whisper of Zayak means zero. Repeated a jump you're not supposed to? Downgrade the triple to a double. Repeated a combination? Just count it as a solo jump. No one's going to repeat on purpose since they'll be doing more for less marks.

    Quote Originally Posted by karne View Post
    Soo...you want him to be given credit for a 3Lo-2Lo? How can you justify that? You wouldn't know how the jump combination would have gone without a 2T. Maybe Voronov used the 2T to rebalance himself before the 2Lo and if he had to do the 2Lo out of the 3Lo he might have fallen. You just don't know.
    He should at least get credit for the 3Lo.

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    Size 7 Knife Boots Sam-Skwantch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sandpiper View Post
    I really don't understand why one whisper of Zayak means zero.
    Everything other than an actual fall must be punished!!

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    Custom Title demarinis5's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blades of Passion View Post
    It's really just comical at this point how little the ISU understands their own judging system. They are like some bumbling surgeon slicing a patient open all over the place. This new rule was good in the sense that it has stopped people from planning those dumb +2Toe+2Toe combinations in their programs, but it makes objective scoring of programs an even bigger joke. Doubling a jump means than an entire three-jump combination later in the program is worth 0 points? In what reality does that make sense to anyone with a brain bigger than an ant?
    This! and;

    Quote Originally Posted by Sam-Skwantch View Post
    Everything other than an actual fall must be punished!!
    This.

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