Lyrics in programs: Yay or Nay? Now the Season is Over

When I first heard that the inclusion of vocals would now be allowed (was it really a year ago?!), I was not sure about it (See this post for my initial reaction).

But now that I have watched my first competition where vocals are allowed, I am firmly on the "nay" side.

So far, the only competition from the Nebelhorn that I have watched in its entirity is the Ladies competition. But, I can safely say that of all the programmes that included vocals, there was only one that I enjoyed. And that is probably because I am totally biased, because I absolutely love the skater AND the singer!

Thinking about it over the months, I got worried that the vocals would be too distracting, and that you would be concentrating more on them than the skating. And, that is exactly what happened when watching the programmes with vocals at the Nebelhorn. I was not able to enjoy the skating.

In fact, I had to watch Alena Leonova's SP twice, as the music distracted me so much that I hadn't a clue how well she had skated after my first attempt watching it. (And then I had to watch her FS twice, as the picture quality on the livestream archive was so bad!)

So, for me anyway, the inclusion of vocals has been a major step backwards for the sport. Not the major step forwards that Lori Nicholl was talking about.

Incidentally, I found Lori's interview very interesting. Maybe I am getting cynical in my old age, but I couldn't help thinking that she was being too enthusiastic about the inclusion of vocals. To me, it was as if she had been told by somebody at the ISU:


Who knows, by the end of the season, there might be a whole pile of programmes that have included vocals in their music that I enjoy. We'll just have to wait and see.

But, what I can say now is that the best programme by a country mile in the Ladies competition at the Nebelhorn did not have any vocals. And I am not just saying that because it was Liza.

CaroLiza_fan

I would have to say Nay for now. I agree with most posters that the singing could be distracting. However I will keep my mind open and might change my mind later. I believe in evolution and am happy that there are more open doors.

CaroLiza_fan said:

Incidentally, I found Lori's interview very interesting. Maybe I am getting cynical in my old age, but I couldn't help thinking that she was being too enthusiastic about the inclusion of vocals. To me, it was as if she had been told by somebody at the ISU:

"Right, this including vocals plan hasn't gone down as well as we were expecting. People aren't convinced that it's a good idea. We don't want to backtrack, as that would be embarassing for us. So, we need somebody who is respected and knows what they are talking about to try and convince the naysayers that it is a wonderful idea. Could you do it?"...​

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I agree with everything in your post (including about Liza and Alena). In fact, I've been on the "nay" side from the moment I heard there'd be vocals, and watch Nebelhorn only confirmed by opinion. That being said, I think Lori Nichol gave the best defence of vocals she could give, and I understand where she's coming rom. Considering she's been a choreographer for so long, and many have complained about her recent material being stale, I can see why she'd find the addition of vocals (heck, the addition of anything new) to be liberating. Unfortunately, the choreographer liking to work with it =/= the product actually working for the public.

I guess it has to depend on the combination of the tune and vibe of the song that will determine if it's better to use an instrumental version or a version with lyrics. But also the program tone and mood that the skater is trying to give off has to match. I have a list of so many songs with lyrics that would be great for skating programs in competitions. If you want me to tell you, let me know and I'll give you at least 15-20 songs.

Lyrics distract me from skater's small mistakes tbh. But I think lyrics help athletes to accent some nuances in their performance. So idk. I don't like it so far.

Figure skaters have used lyrics in their exhibitions for years, so I'm not averse to it. I think it really depends on the song and also if the skater starts to sing along, that would be goofy!

I like when they use lyrics during part of the music selection, like with Mirai's Madam Butterfly, I think it has more emotional punch and Mirai seemed to connect with it during her Broadmoor performance. When they use the entire or edited version of a song like with Max Aaron's "Footloose", it was just distracting for me. That one may wind up being a crowdpleaser though, so what do I know? LOL

noskates said:

... I loathe Carmen now no matter who does it ....

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LOL, never would have guessed . I'm shocked, shocked, shocked .

I don't like the lyrics. There are messages conveyed through the words and if you don't understand the language you are missing out on part of the experience of the program.

drivingmissdaisy said:

I don't like the lyrics. There are messages conveyed through the words and if you don't understand the language you are missing out on part of the experience of the program.

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I wonder who will be first person or pair using russian language lyrics I can see S/K doing it

golden411 said:

LOL, never would have guessed . I'm shocked, shocked, shocked .

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Hah! Hah! Golden, dear, that wasn't directed at any particular skater rolleye - I really don't like any time it's used!!! Johnny Weir is doing a program to Carmen as voted by his fans from a group of 4 or 5 musical choices. As much as I LOVE Johnny and his skating, it even irks me that he's using this piece of music! And don't get me started on Evan Lysacek please.... :disapp:

drivingmissdaisy said:

I don't like the lyrics. There are messages conveyed through the words and if you don't understand the language you are missing out on part of the experience of the program.

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Agree fully.

Count me in as a nay. I believe it detracts from the actual skating and I just don't like it. Yes, it is great for exhibitions and shows but competitive skating ....no.

Snow63 said:

I wonder who will be first person or pair using russian language lyrics

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Oh, yeah! I'd love to see somebody (anybody!) skating to a bit of Aria!!!

But, I suppose we'll end up getting yet more "Ochi Chernye", only this time with the words...

(Disclaimer: I actually like "Ochi Chernye". But, it is way over-used in skating.)

CaroLiza_fan

StitchMonkey said:

I prefer it to be allowed because I am not a fan of restrictions. . . they seem silly. If the lyrics are a bad choice, or overwhelm the program, or any number of complaints. . . than the problem to me is with the selection, not the fact that is has lyrics. Lyrics should not restrict song choices but give more options and variety. It just has to be done tastefully. Dornbush's Coldplay is a good example of doing them well. I like how the lyrics don't come in till the end. It gives something nice to the tail end of the program. Lyrics are not all or nothing.

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As a die hard ice dance fan, dance has had lyrics for some time now...and yes, use of lyrics for part of the program allows you to highlight really well.

It is not like lyrics MUST be used, and in fact, in dance, many of the programs have few or no lyrics. I like the variety you get that way. I prefer the lyrics to be in a foreign language; it's less distracting that way.

I wonder whether skaters ought to seek out some of the dance choreographers, and some of the people who do music cutting for dance.

Perhaps Charlie White has a future there, since he has cut D&W's music for years.

I really don't mind vocals at all.

YAY - with reservations.

Can there be a limit to lyrics? How about 30 seconds MAX vocal allowed. Lyrics to highlight a program would be great - during a spiral sequence or StSq, etc. Not so much for the entire program. I cannot stand Sotnikova's FS music with wailing for 4 minutes. I also cannot imagine vocals from Carmen on repeat between different skaters...

On a side note, I absolutely despise lyrics in programs. But I suppose something needs to change to attract viewers.

dorispulaski said:

As a die hard ice dance fan, dance has had lyrics for some time now...and yes, use of lyrics for part of the program allows you to highlight really well.

It is not like lyrics MUST be used, and in fact, in dance, many of the programs have few or no lyrics. I like the variety you get that way. I prefer the lyrics to be in a foreign language; it's less distracting that way.

I wonder whether skaters ought to seek out some of the dance choreographers, and some of the people who do music cutting for dance.

Perhaps Charlie White has a future there, since he has cut D&W's music for years.

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I suspect we will see that, right now everyone seems to be testing the waters a bit carefully, which in someways are a good thing. Then again people complain plenty about lyricless programs too so who knows. I do hope some of them are as smart as you can take the time to talk to dancers with experience about what works and what does not.

You bring up a great example with non-English lyrics, I've been hoping and looking forward to getting to see/hear just that. In fact my better half even said something similar to that sentiment during Trophy-Zhiganshina/Gazsi exhibition. . . he liked hearing something he does not get to hear often and thought it figure skating was an interesting medium to get to hear different stuff. I would probably really enjoy familiar songs with the lyrics in other languages. Like a Russian skating to a Michael Jackson song, but sung in Russian. That could be really fun.

And you don't have to have lyrics the entire time. I checked on Dornbush's LP, they start humming at just shy of 4 minutes, the first lyrics of understandable words is just shy 4:20. So there is something a little different during the last minute of the program. To me that is tastefully done and really wise. Many skaters start to get tired. . . this gives a new boost of some different energy at the end. I have a hard time seeing it as overly intrusive.

I can't say I am a fan of Opera but I suspect we will eventually see a some great programs that use the singing as an instrument and the vocals will add to it.

There are a ton of options that they can do. . . they just have to find what works rather than looking for a song with lyrics that works. You can't try to use lyrics as a crutch, and likely should not decide "I want to skate to lyrics" but rather when you hear something that moves you that has lyrics. . . then you pursue using it.

It also could result in some cross-over promotional style successes. How fun could it be to see a mainstream artist let a skater use a song from an upcoming album ahead of time? Rather than traditionally releasing a single, release it as an athlete's performance track. Or even release the single same week they debut the program. Or refuse to release the video until they win gold with it. There are some openings for some interesting cross-promotional activities. I really would love to see some song get on the charts because people heard it in a skating program. I don't know if I would want it to happen every year, but once or twice a quad could be fun.

The thing is, even if you (the general you that the English language lacks, not you specifically) hate lyrics, I still don't see why you should think it should be disallowed. . you should just go on hating it. I just don't see the reason to ban them. Let people do what they want. . . if it works great, if not let the scores reflect it. I grew up with a polka loving accordion player in the house. . . I see little to no artistic appeal in it, I doubt I would ever enjoy an accordion polka skate (unless it was as a parody). As much as I hate it, I don't think it should be disallowed for any reason.

Then again, I still don't hate Footloose. . . if Max could actually enjoy it, I still think it could work, so maybe my taste is suspect at best.

I like polka. I loved the polka SD season 2012-2013, which included

Davis &White's Giselle

Madison Chock & Evan Bates USA
SD Waltz & Polka from Quidam by Cirque du Soleil

Nathalie Pechalat & Fabian Bourzat FRA
SD Polka: Gaite Parisienne by Jacques Offenbach; Waltz: Sous le ciel de Paris performed by Yves Montand; Polka: Gaite Parisienne by Jacques Offenbach

Madison Hubbell & Zach Donohue USA
SD Waltz from Titanic (soundtrack); John Ryan's Polka; by James Horner

Elena Ilinykh & Nikita Katsalapov RUS
SD Andijan Polka

Penny Coomes & Nicholas Buckland GBR
SD Polka: Scalliwag by Galic Storm; Waltz, Polka: Rhythms of the Fall;

Ramona Elsener & Florian Roost SUI
SD Polka: Pie in the Face Polka; Waltz: Carnival de Venise Medley

Anna Cappelllini & Luca Lanotte ITA
SD Barn Dance (from "Seven Brides For Seven Brothers" soundtrack); Bless Your Beautiful Hide and Wonderful, Wonderful Day (from "Seven Brides For Seven Brothers" soundtrack)

Olesia Karmi & Max Lindholm FIN
SD Polka: Säkkijärven Polka; Waltz: Kesäillan Valssi

dorispulaski said:

I like polka. I loved the polka SD season 2012-2013, which included Davis &White's Giselle, Penny Coomes & Nicholas Buckland GBR
SD Polka: Scalliwag by Galic Storm; Waltz, Polka: Rhythms of the Fall;

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You can only be trapped in a car and hear "Hot Diggity Dog Ziggity" so many times in one trip as a child without having some scars. When you have to hear the same one player playing one instrument for hours and hours on ends. . . in the middle of the house. . . where the sound leaves know where that you can escape. . . it is just not the same as exposure I hope you had. I am not exaggerating here, this is one of those people whose mother had to plead with him to stop playing the piano. When he plays, he enters some strange state of time dilation that results in him playing for hours and hours on end. As in come home from school, he is playing. . . a few hours later mom tells him (her husband/my step-father) dinner is ready in 15 minutes, he nods, comes out hours later upset and confused why dinner is put away. "I thought you said dinner was ready? with no sign of any comprehension how long ago that was" This was a normal occurrence in our household. He played the piano more. . . that was louder but i can tolerate the music slightly better. He played semi-professionally, i.e. getting paid, i.e. he had to practice. Learning a new song on the accordion is not the same as what you hear them skate to! So frequently the same songs, played over and over, and then again the next night.

I don't fault people for liking it, I just hope you understand how it brings up bad REDRUM style childhood memories. It is not the music, it is the bad exposure, and over exposure. I wish you the best in your polka listing pleasure, just please don't try to Rickroll me with polka links?

. . . but I do confess, I sorta want to try to get him to try and play Juke on the accordion. I tried to get him to do Tron's Derezzed, but he had trouble figuring that one out.

OK, anyway, Im sorry, did not mean to hurt or offend, just an example, now off to desperately try to get Perry Como out of my head.




Edit. . . I promise to check the ones you list out when I am feeling open minded and not jaded by an ear worm.

And not from that season, Ieva's Polka by Loituma the traditional version

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=4om1rQKPijI

and the techno version also
http://m.youtube.com/#/watch?v=0i8VM_EooCs

which gets us back to great things that can happen with lyrics.

What I have been scarred by is bandoneon tango music which is another type of accordion, I suppose.

jinhamasaki said:

YAY - with reservations.

Can there be a limit to lyrics? How about 30 seconds MAX vocal allowed. Lyrics to highlight a program would be great - during a spiral sequence or StSq, etc. Not so much for the entire program. I cannot stand Sotnikova's FS music with wailing for 4 minutes. I also cannot imagine vocals from Carmen on repeat between different skaters...

On a side note, I absolutely despise lyrics in programs. But I suppose something needs to change to attract viewers.

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Actually, I'm of the exact opposite opinion: If you're going to use lyrics, then have it throughout the program. Then at least the program feels like a complete whole. Brezina's LP with the vocals suddenly kicking in in the last 20 seconds was really, really jarring. Ruined a perfectly good program.