Which would you choose: OSM or WGM?

Mathman · Jul 24, 2014

A single Olympic gold medal is certainly more to be coveted than a single world championship, but to get back to the original question about an Olympic silver versus a world gold, here is the list of all ladies who have won an Olympic silver medal but not a world championship.

Sasha Cohen
Nancy Kerrigan
E;izabeth Manley
Regina Heitzer
Eva Pawlik http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/1/19/Eva_Pawlik.jpeg/220px-Eva_Pawlik.jpeg
Fritzi Berger
Beatrix Loughram
Svea Noren
Madge Julin
Elsa Rendschmidt

iluvtodd · Jul 25, 2014

Mathman said:
Good point. But I think what puts Browning at the top of the list is not what he won or didn't win, but the quality of his programs, especially as a professional.

gravy said:
Agreed.

That quote reminded me of this-- Sandra Bezic: "Success isn't always measured by a gold medal."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wazOhkRuySI#t=26

Mathman said:
"You'll remember me when the west wind blows
Upon the fields of barley."

I will.

:agree:

Icey · Jul 25, 2014

If competing in world's and the Olympics that followed: WGM
If competing at the Olympics and the following world's: OSM

Sandpiper · Jul 25, 2014

^These seem to go hand-in-hand, since reigning World champions often don't win the Olympics for whatever reason.

amc987 · Jul 25, 2014

^ I think that's a pretty recent trend isn't it? I remember when Michelle Kwan won 2001 Worlds and didn't win in Salt Lake, she was one of the first reigning world champions not to win the Olympics in the following year.

Mathman · Jul 25, 2014

amc987 said:
^ I think that's a pretty recent trend isn't it? I remember when Michelle Kwan won 2001 Worlds and didn't win in Salt Lake, she was one of the first reigning world champions not to win the Olympics in the following year.

It happened a few times before, though. In 1975-76 Dianne de Leeuw and Dorothy Hamill switched, 1979-1980 Linda Fratianne and Anett Poetzsch, and 1983-84 Rosalynn Sumners and katarina Witt.

Kwanford Wife · Jul 25, 2014

For me, a World Medal trumps all just because it is a better representation of the year's best skating whereas the Olympics is more about the countries and pomp. Want drama? Look to the Games. Want Awesome Athletic Ability? Look to Worlds.

Why? Because the Games isn't about the best skating, its about the best story and because of that, I think it just comes down to the skater and their rep and where they were professionally & personally when they won said medals...

For example:

I don't think Michelle or Kurt would be more famous with OGMs but both would be more fulfilled - probably but maybe not. Michelle would still be the public service kween and Kurt still the ambassador of the sport.

Sasha wouldn't be more fulfilled or richer had she won a WGM vs OSM. She wanted that OGM and nothing else. Nancy falls into this category too.

Irina, if rumors are to be believed, showed what she thought of her non gold medal... but relished her world titles

The sheer joy of medaling at the Olympics is generally found on the third step: Carolina, Chen Lu, Philippe, Joanne and Timothy are a few who come to mind...

RABID · Jul 25, 2014

I don't get the point of this thread. Is there really any other answer than Olympic gold? I don't think you can even give a number to how much more valuable it is compared to World's gold. Skating fans watch Worlds; the world watches the Olympics. It is after all THE goal of any athlete; to win Olympic gold. I am sure that deep down in Michelle's heart she would gladly trade in all but one of her World gold medals for just that one Olympic gold.
The only thing more prestigious than Olympic gold is when it is accompanied by a World gold; implying that the winning skater is the real deal and not just some journeyman who happened to put it all together for one night. You could also say that next on the hierarchy list is winning gold and silver in different games. Yuna and Evgeni Plushenko winning both gold and silver in different games attained much higher status than what is given to skaters like say Evan Lysacek and Tara Lipinski with their sole Olympic gold medal.
So, the hierarchy as I see it is thus: 1) two Olympic golds from different games 2) Olympic gold + World gold or Olympic gold + Olympic silver (from different games), 3) Olympic gold, 4) World gold + Olympic silver, 5) World gold + Olympic bronze, 6) World gold 7) Olympic silver (JUST behind World gold)

Ophelia · Jul 26, 2014

^Original point of this thread was OSM vs WGM, not OGM vs WGM. I find it an interesting question.

satine · Jul 26, 2014

I'm surprised at how many people are misreading the title

Must have gold on the brain.

Kwanford Wife · Jul 26, 2014

lilahozi said:
^Original point of this thread was OSM vs WGM, not OGM vs WGM. I find it an interesting question.

satine94 said:
I'm surprised at how many people are misreading the title Must have gold on the brain.

I read it correctly and for some reason when straight to comparing the Olympic gold to a world gold. And I believe it has to do with how few of this generation's greats actually have Olympic gold - despite our desire for time machines to make it so... As a Kwan fan, for example, I still haven't gotten over the fact that she won a silver in '98 and have yet to re-watch the '02 long program. So I block it out of my mind and decide that a world's gold trumps all and five is beyond compare.

But I'm just a fan - an uber, of course, but still just a fan... And in my heart of hearts I doubt those five world titles give Kwan the satisfaction that one OGM would. The silver probably just feels like a lost and she might still be getting therapy for the bronze. Just like I'm convinced Sarah Hughes as replaced her joy in winning with some other huge accomplishment.

gotoschool · Jul 26, 2014

I believe the World Gold medal is worth more than an Olympic Silver medal given the controversial judging that seems to be more pronounced in recent Olympic competitions. Besides, it indicates that the given skater is the best in the world at that time and the Worlds pre-dates the Olympics by almost 20 years.

Sandpiper · Jul 26, 2014

Mathman said:
It happened a few times before, though. In 1975-76 Dianne de Leeuw and Dorothy Hamill switched, 1979-1980 Linda Fratianne and Anett Poetzsch, and 1983-84 Rosalynn Sumners and katarina Witt.

It's more pronounced on the men's side. Orser (1988), Browning (twice! 1992/94), Stojko (1998), Plushenko (back in 2002), Lambiel (2006), Chan (2014). Maybe there really isn't a Canadian curse. It's just a reigning world champion curse with US skaters being exempt. The Canadians got the brunt of it 'cause they're so often world champions. Patrick is probably cursing his third world title.

Mathman · Jul 26, 2014

Kwanford Wife said:
IAnd in my heart of hearts I doubt those five world titles give Kwan the satisfaction that one OGM would.

Maybe. But would she rather be one of only four ladies singles skaters who won five or more world championships or one of 21 who won the Olympics. Who knows how long we will wait before another skater wins five world championships (unless Mao Asada does it two years from now

), but for sure, rain or shine, good performance or bad, someone will win the Olympics in four years. And another four years after that. And another four years after that.

At the end of the day, you won what you won, and you didn't win what you didn't win.

Sandpiper · Jul 26, 2014

Michelle Kwan with 1 OGM but 0 WC wouldn't be so well remembered today. She'd be just like Sarah Hughes. Is Sarah more "satisfied" with her career than Michelle is with hers? Maybe, considering their relative skills. But would Michelle trade her career--her journey--for Sarah's? Hell no.

Heck, most people would consider Irina Slutskaya a more dominant, influential skater than Tara Lipinski, even though Tara has Olympic gold and Irina only has one more World title. Seems to show that World titles and not-gold Olympic medals aren't so useless after all.

RABID · Jul 27, 2014

Sandpiper said:
Michelle Kwan with 1 OGM but 0 WC wouldn't be so well remembered today. She'd be just like Sarah Hughes. Is Sarah more "satisfied" with her career than Michelle is with hers? Maybe, considering their relative skills. But would Michelle trade her career--her journey--for Sarah's? Hell no.

Heck, most people would consider Irina Slutskaya a more dominant, influential skater than Tara Lipinski, even though Tara has Olympic gold and Irina only has one more World title. Seems to show that World titles and not-gold Olympic medals aren't so useless after all.

But how does she compare to someone who has won two Olympic gold medals, or one Olympic gold and two Worlds, etc.? She has to be and is compared to those skaters. No, there is no getting around it, her CV is missing a vital award and she knows it; it is The niggling asterisk to an otherwise stellar career.

Mathman · Jul 27, 2014

Well, obviously Michelle would prefer to have won everything in sight. That goes without saying.

Meoima · Jul 27, 2014

RABID said:
But how does she compare to someone who has won two Olympic gold medals, or one Olympic gold and two Worlds, etc.? She has to be and is compared to those skaters. No, there is no getting around it, her CV is missing a vital award and she knows it; it is The niggling asterisk to an otherwise stellar career.

Actually who cares about that OGM when they still remember her as one of the greatest competitors in figure skating? I remember watching her from young and she still left a big impression in my mind till now. It's not that not winning OGM would make think less of her as a great skater.

Sandpiper · Jul 27, 2014

RABID said:
But how does she compare to someone who has won two Olympic gold medals, or one Olympic gold and two Worlds, etc.? She has to be and is compared to those skaters. No, there is no getting around it, her CV is missing a vital award and she knows it; it is The niggling asterisk to an otherwise stellar career.

I dunno. If Irina Slutskaya had won in Torino, would she be remembered as a greater skater than Michelle? Heck, will Yuna be remembered as a greater skater than Michelle (Olympic gold + 2 Worlds, like you said)? There seems to be a lot of debate on this--it's not a clear-cut thing. Yes, OGM is a niggling asterisk in Michelle's career, but I don't think she'd be so well remembered if she'd won Nagano + 1998 Worlds then retired.

I'm trying to imagine someone who won two Olympic golds but no/only one Worlds. Is there such a person to compare to?

Also, don't forget, Michelle is two-time Olympic medallist even if they're not gold. Even Kurt Browning, who has one less World title than Michelle and never won an Olympic medal of any colour (I'm sure Kurt doesn't think Michelle's haul is paltry at all), still seems better remembered than his contemporary Viktor Petrenko (Worlds + two Olympic medals, including gold). Maybe this doesn't hold true in Europe... but point stands, sometimes longevity and a constant presence at the top triumphs that one medal.

cooper · Jul 27, 2014

like what i said OGM > all... however in every general rule there's always an exception.. it depends how you win that gold..

Which would you choose: OSM or WGM?

Mathman

iluvtodd

Icey

Sandpiper

amc987

Mathman

Kwanford Wife

RABID

Ophelia

satine

v Yuki Ishikawa v

Kwanford Wife

gotoschool

Sandpiper

Mathman

Sandpiper

RABID

Mathman

Meoima

Match Penalty

Sandpiper

cooper

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