Polina Edmunds shows promise

Meoima · Aug 6, 2014

shine said:
You don't get it. Yulia's team has a so called "signature program" simply because they happened to have made a very smart strategic choice with Schindler's List at the right time. Whether they will continue to make good strategic choices remains to be seen. You may be more easily impressed by flexibility and this type of "signature programs", but I personally don't need them to be impressed by a skater, nor do I believe that's the only way to get to the top. Great skating skills, solid jumping technique, true musicality and a real understanding of movement will very likely win out at the end.

It's the reputation that Yulia has but Polina hasn't got. Whether you like Yulia's program or not, you have to admit a silver medal at Worlds and a huge fan base thanks to her signature program as well as consistency will help Yulia a lot in the near future. It's FS, they judge base on reputation!
Polina, as a newcomers, also need that if she want to challenge all the Russian girls (maybe not as quickly as Yulia but she need that). Let's not forget aside from Yulia, other Russian girls as Radionova, Liza Tuk, Adelina... are all strong jumpers.

CanadianSkaterGuy · Aug 6, 2014

Meoima said:
It's the reputation that Yulia has but Polina hasn't got. Whether you like Yulia's program or not, you have to admit a silver medal at Worlds and a huge fan base thanks to her signature program will help Yulia a lot in the near future. Polina, as a newcomers, also need that if she want to challenge all the Russian girls (maybe not as quickly as Yulia but she need that). Let's not forget aside from Yulia, other Russian girls as Radionova, Liza Tuk, Adelina... are all strong jumpers.

Oh yeah, Yulia's fan base is vastly superior to Polina's and deservedly so given her consistency, but she does have a season up on her. If Polina's consistent, she'll be what Julia was last season - except without the benefit of a home ice GP assignment or home Olympic games to boost her PCS astronomically. Even with her two worst performances last year on Russian ice, Julia received personal bests for PCS. If Polina were at Skate America, she would get Glacier Falls-esque PCS were she to skate clean, and automatically bump her PCS threshold up 5-7 points (SP+LP). Thankfully, she's at NHK, where a clean performance will be appreciated, and really help boost her stock.

shine · Aug 6, 2014

Meoima said:
It's the reputation that Yulia has but Polina hasn't got. Whether you like Yulia's program or not, you have to admit a silver medal at Worlds and a huge fan base thanks to her signature program as well as consistency will help Yulia a lot in the near future. It's FS, they judge base on reputation!
Polina, as a newcomers, also need that if she want to challenge all the Russian girls (maybe not as quickly as Yulia but she need that). Let's not forget aside from Yulia, other Russian girls as Radionova, Liza Tuk, Adelina... are all strong jumpers.

I only hope that the judges would be more discerning than the bandwagon jumping fans when they see truly superior skating. If not, we might as well just let the fans vote for the winner.

You may not see it, but I personally think EP's new programs are stunners this season, and a testimony of her versatility and musicality. I appreciate this type of real substance.

CanadianSkaterGuy · Aug 6, 2014

shine said:
I only hope that the judges would be more discerning than the bandwagon jumping fans when they see truly superior skating. If not, we might as well just let the fans vote for the winner. I personally think EP's new programs are stunners this season.

I think they're works in progress, but have the potential to be beautiful. I'm not seeing it quite yet (even though the jumps are certainly there), but I think for a first time out she's put on quite a show so far.

R.D. · Aug 6, 2014

As bad as the judges can be, letting the audience decide the winner would be even worse!

People would just pick their faves regardless of how they skated. That's exactly how it played out at an ABC fluff event some years ago, and how it works on American Idol/DWTS/etc.

Meoima · Aug 6, 2014

CanadianSkaterGuy said:
I think they're works in progress, but have the potential to be beautiful. I'm not seeing it quite yet (even though the jumps are certainly there), but I think for a first time out she's put on quite a show so far.

I think it's better than her programs last year but I hope they chose something more "wow" for her. Anyways, it's still in progress so just wait and see.

drivingmissdaisy · Aug 6, 2014

chuckm said:
I do agree that the PCS ceiling for the very top skaters will lower a bit.

I agree. I expect Julia to get the highest average PCS (high 8's/low 9's), and Adelina the highest on occasions when she goes clean (low 9's). I don't think anyone will be getting 10's this year. The Russians are IMO the two standouts going in to next season in the absence of the last three world champions.

CanadianSkaterGuy · Aug 6, 2014

Meoima said:
I think it's better than her programs last year but I hope they chose something more "wow" for her. Anyways, it's still in progress so just wait and see.

I like her SP from last year moreso than her tango SP this year (even if it is harder). However, I do like her FS more. But yes, just a work in progress. I prefer more mature skaters to tackle a tango otherwise it can look a little contrived but on the other hand it's what Polina needs to be doing (more expressive numbers) in order to not fall into one "type" of skater. But really, who cares when you can jump like she can!

Sam-Skwantch · Aug 6, 2014

R.D. said:
As bad as the judges can be, letting the audience decide the winner would be even worse!

People would just pick their faves regardless of how they skated. That's exactly how it played out at an ABC fluff event some years ago, and how it works on American Idol/DWTS/etc.

ITA...although its hard for the judges to ignore an honest standing ovation and reward the skater. I mean those people paid to be there and their input should be welcome to some extent. More so than grumpy Internet trolls even

Here's to Polina getting a standing O

CanadianSkaterGuy · Aug 6, 2014

Well, yeah.. in places like Japan (and maybe only Japan) the audience will give honest standing ovations where deserved (especially if they attempt strong difficulty). Which is why Polina actually might be very well-received, given that she has the hardest jumping difficulty possible (other than 3A or 2nd half bonus usage).

chuckm · Aug 6, 2014

Adelina and Yulia both flutz. Pogo lips. Polina has correct edges on her pick jumps.

I have heard that Tuk may withdraw from both GP events due to injury, so she may not be in the equation.

Sam-Skwantch · Aug 6, 2014

chuckm said:
Adelina and Yulia both flutz. Pogo lips. Polina has correct edges on her pick jumps.

I have heard that Tuk may withdraw from both GP events due to injury, so she may not be in the equation.

While I don't argue this in any way...most people (at least some) seemed to interpret the new rules as only applying to egregious edge calls and not unclear edge. It may in fact be that we see less (e) calls going forward and instead more unclear takeoff being called. If this interpretation is correct wouldnt Lip and Sot get by with similar results since their flutzes are on the unclear side.

Besides both girls come from strong camps. Maybe they can fix them. Maybe Polina isn't the only one improving

starlight97 · Aug 6, 2014

Ok I think we can all feel some personal preferences here by now

Yes- Yulia sometimes goes in with a wrong edge.
Yes- Schindlers L. was a smart choice and yes she had an advantage in Russia (just like Asada in Japan and Yuna would have had in 2018 Korea) we will have to see if she can do the same this season
Yes- Polina jumps clean and correct and is a newbie to seniors

If she is able to do what Yulia did last season (win her GP events, silver in GPF, silver at worlds, silver at nationals ...in her first senior season ever) I will go just as fan-girl over her as I'm going now over Yulia

Until then- let's just stop comparing them (although it's natural to do so because of 'aa they are so young and great') and wait and see what becomes of Edmunds

Meoima · Aug 6, 2014

chuckm said:
Adelina and Yulia both flutz. Pogo lips. Polina has correct edges on her pick jumps.

I have heard that Tuk may withdraw from both GP events due to injury, so she may not be in the equation.

Wait! Liza may withdraw from both Gp events? I thought her injury was alright? What happened. :eek:

oh no, she need to regain her reputation as soon as possible. Poor girl!

CanadianSkaterGuy · Aug 6, 2014

Frankly, I'm not a stickler for flutz/lipping as much as others are. If the skate looks clean, it shouldn't be held against the skater if they have an edge call or two. That being said, we should still laud Polina for being able to jump on the right edges.

Perhaps the new 70% flutz/lip rule will play a factor in Polina's success against the likes of Julia.

I don't expect Polina to replicate Julia's results from last year, although it would be incredible if Edmunds won both GP events in her first GP season. Regarding Julia's first senior season, last season was not Julia's first senior season ever. She had a GP season the year before where she came 2nd and 3rd in her GP events (which is still a strong debut).

Polina also came 2nd at her Nationals in her first year as a senior, whereas Julia was 4th in her first Russian Nationals.

If Polina wins one or both of her GP events, she would have technically had a better debut senior season than Julia. If she wins both GPs, comes top 2 at the GPF and medals at Worlds, then she would have replicated Julia's 2nd senior season last year... but I don't think Polina will be able to do that, given the stiff competition she'll face.

She is however a "Kovtun" in that she was fast-tracked mid-season from juniors into seniors after a strong Nationals and went straight to Worlds (although in her case, she immediately lit it up), so it's hard to compare her to skaters who started with a GP season and didn't go to Worlds (Julia), skaters who only did one GP but then showed up at Worlds (Osmond), or skaters who actually experienced a full debut season that included GPs and Worlds (Gold).

Icey · Aug 6, 2014

Thus far, Polina is getting low goe's on her jumps, sometimes even negative ones. I wonder if she will be able to improve on that this season.

drivingmissdaisy · Aug 6, 2014

CanadianSkaterGuy said:
Perhaps the new 70% flutz/lip rule will play a factor in Polina's success against the likes of Julia.

Julia could do Caro's Sochi SP layout last year (3F/3T, 3Lo) and surpass Polina with spins and PCS without having to risk a lutz edge call. Adelina already does only 1 lutz total so even if she flutzes it's a net gain because she has to do the move to get to 7 triples in the LP.

Mrs. P · Aug 6, 2014

CanadianSkaterGuy said:
She is however a "Kovtun" in that she was fast-tracked mid-season from juniors into seniors after a strong Nationals and went straight to Worlds (although in her case, she immediately lit it up), so it's hard to compare her to skaters who started with a GP season and didn't go to Worlds (Julia), skaters who only did one GP but then showed up at Worlds (Osmond), or skaters who actually experienced a full debut season that included GPs and Worlds (Gold).

Unlike Kovtun, however, Polina actually got her spot by having a solid (and somewhat surprising) result at Nationals while Kovtun got his Euros/Worlds spots over several skaters who beat him at Russian nationals.

Selene · Aug 6, 2014

Icey said:
Thus far, Polina is getting low goe's on her jumps, sometimes even negative ones. I wonder if she will be able to improve on that this season.

Last season was Polina's debut international season. She had no reputation with the judges. If she continues to deliver good performances, I think her jump GOE and PCS will both rise as her reputation with the judges improves. If Julia and Gracie's small, pathetic jumps can get garner GOE, Polina should be able to earn good GOE on her jumps, too.

shine · Aug 7, 2014

Meoima said:
I think it's better than her programs last year but I hope they chose something more "wow" for her. Anyways, it's still in progress so just wait and see.

Some people appreciate subtlety and sophistication over "wowing" flexibility.

Polina Edmunds shows promise

Meoima

Match Penalty

CanadianSkaterGuy

shine

CanadianSkaterGuy

R.D.

Meoima

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drivingmissdaisy

CanadianSkaterGuy

Sam-Skwantch

“I solemnly swear I’m up to no good”

CanadianSkaterGuy

chuckm

Sam-Skwantch

“I solemnly swear I’m up to no good”

starlight97

Meoima

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Icey

drivingmissdaisy

Mrs. P

Uno, Dos, twizzle!

Selene

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