Boyang Jin 4Lz | Page 3 | Golden Skate

Boyang Jin 4Lz

lbc2138

On the Ice
Joined
Mar 7, 2014
It's true that he has a really physically demanding layout, but of the two quads, he can practically never land one of them properly in competition anyway (not a secret; really, it's not). In terms of jumps only, I think Javier might have a harder layout with three quads (two of them salchows and one of the salchows usually in a 4-3 in a combination) and seven triples; but I haven't done the CoP math, so don't quote me on that.

It's hard to really compare Javi's layout because I agree and think that his planned layout is worth a little more at least in terms of the base value. But he tends to pop a couple of his jumps, a bad habit I guess.
 

Sandpiper

Record Breaker
Joined
Apr 16, 2014
It's true that he has a really physically demanding layout, but of the two quads, he can practically never land one of them properly in competition anyway (not a secret; really, it's not). In terms of jumps only, I think Javier might have a harder layout with three quads (two of them salchows and one of the salchows usually in a 4-3 in a combination) and seven triples; but I haven't done the CoP math, so don't quote me on that.
Never landing the salchow doesn't mean it's not physically demanding to attempt it. I wish he'd stop, but I doubt he'd listen to me. Stupid COP for rewarding those falls.

During the CBC broadcast of 2014 Worlds, Kurt Browning and co. said Yuzu's base value was higher than both Machida's and Javi's. I dunno if they're right or not, but it's possible considering Yuzu's combo backloading and Javi's lack of a second 3A. It's kinda hard to tell without doing the COP math, because Javi always pops something. Anyway, Yuzu's World LP was the first time 2 quads + 8 triples were landed, so suffice to say it's a very difficult layout that anyone would struggle to skate clean. (It's not the only difficult layout, of course).
 

shiroKJ

Back to the forest you go.
Record Breaker
Joined
Jun 9, 2014
FYI, Asthma (Or any condition actually) has different levels of severity so that's a pretty ignorant statement. To say something affects someone less doesn't mean its the same for everyone. I personally know someone who has several asthmatic episodes per day and that's with them controlling their lifestyle and environment+medication. It can extremely dangerous and not something you can just brush off.

That said, there are tons of world class athletes who have asthma. To some its a weakness that holds them back while to others its simply a slight inconvenience.

The question should be, why even with Hanyu's physical/stamina weakness can he still knock out 100+ TES's, while others who have much more stamina and physical strength then him cannot even get close let alone surpass that?
 

Meoima

Match Penalty
Joined
Feb 13, 2014
If it is indeed the landing it sounds ridiculously painful and awful. Feel bad for him. He should honestly work on other parts of his performance. He won't get anywhere just by having lots of quads, even if he is able to land all of them. (i.e. Brandon M, Kevin R).
Yes, that's why I said I felt somewhat uncomfortable when I heard Boyang's landing. It's so loud I feel scared. And he is just 1m56 according to wiki. If he hasn't finished growing yet, then I am very worried. I hope he will be alright. :slink:

About Yuzuru:
Stop bashing his body type. It's something born with you, not that you can have the body of a wrestler after one or two day.
And no one excuse Yuzuru when he didn't finish his LP with landing both of the quads, which he eventually did at Saitama. He could have done it better without injury, but he has done it anyway.
Give P.Chan the same layout I am sure he would have passed out in the end. So it has nothing to do with body type.
This is just the same as bashing girl for their body weight.

FYI, Asthma (Or any condition actually) has different levels of severity so that's a pretty ignorant statement.
I don't want to post it here but since there are debate over asthma. You can read more details here, about Yuzuru's asthma condition, if anyone interest: http://kuchibiru-devil.tumblr.com/post/79762547698/troublemakerstorm-x-x-x-out-of-pure

There is something call acupuncture needles, when he practices, he has around 15 needles on his body. There are many photos in which we can see the needle on the side of his neck: http://flockler.com/thumbs/1056/yuzuru2ft13--858ry7a7d5_s400x0_q80_noupscale.jpg
 

shiroKJ

Back to the forest you go.
Record Breaker
Joined
Jun 9, 2014
Oh and on the topic of this thread, wow that was impressive. I can't tell if its full rotated or whatnot but that sound he made scared me for a second.That kind of heavy landing can't be good for anyone let alone a still growing boy. I wish his coaches keep an eye out on his health. He has a lot of talent and I wish to see him succeed in Sr's :yes:

With Han Yan, Song Nan (hopefully he gets it together) and Boyang, China is looking to be on the right track in the singles department :biggrin:
 

aftertherain

Record Breaker
Joined
Jan 15, 2010
During the CBC broadcast of 2014 Worlds, Kurt Browning and co. said Yuzu's base value was higher than both Machida's and Javi's. I dunno if they're right or not, but it's possible considering Yuzu's combo backloading and Javi's lack of a second 3A. It's kinda hard to tell without doing the COP math, because Javi always pops something. Anyway, Yuzu's World LP was the first time 2 quads + 8 triples were landed, so suffice to say it's a very difficult layout that anyone would struggle to skate clean. (It's not the only difficult layout, of course).

http://www.isuresults.com/results/wc2014/wc2014_Men_FS_Scores.pdf

Yuzuru Hanyu:
4S (10.50) + 4T (10.30) + 3F (5.30) + 3A+3T[X] (13.86) + 3A+2T[X] (10.78) + 3Lo[X] (5.61) + 3Lz+1Lo+3S[X] (11.77) + 3Lz[X] (6.60) = 74.72

Tatsuki Machida
4T (10.30) + 4T+2t (11.60) + 3A+3T (12.60) + 3A[X] (9.35) + 3Lo[X] (5.61) + 3Lz[X] (6.60) + 3F+2T+2Lo[X] (9.24) + 3S[X] (4.62) = 69.92

http://www.isuresults.com/results/ec2013/ec2013_Men_FS_Scores.pdf
http://www.isuresults.com/results/ec2014/ec2014_Men_FS_Scores.pdf

Javier Fernandez:
4T (10.30) + 4S+3T (14.60) + 3A (8.50) + 4S[X] (11.55) + 3Lz+2T[X] (8.03) + 3Lo[X] (5.61) + 3F+1Lo+3S[X] (11.00) + 3S[X] (4.62) = 74.21

Yuzuru > Javier, but only by a fraction of a point. He makes up the rest of the gap with spin levels, etc.
 

Wo|flax

Final Flight
Joined
Feb 22, 2014
http://www.isuresults.com/results/wc2014/wc2014_Men_FS_Scores.pdf

Yuzuru Hanyu:
4S (10.50) + 4T (10.30) + 3F (5.30) + 3A+3T[X] (13.86) + 3A+2T[X] (10.78) + 3Lo[X] (5.61) + 3Lz+1Lo+3S[X] (11.77) + 3Lz[X] (6.60) = 74.72

Tatsuki Machida
4T (10.30) + 4T+2t (11.60) + 3A+3T (12.60) + 3A[X] (9.35) + 3Lo[X] (5.61) + 3Lz[X] (6.60) + 3F+2T+2Lo[X] (9.24) + 3S[X] (4.62) = 69.92

http://www.isuresults.com/results/ec2013/ec2013_Men_FS_Scores.pdf
http://www.isuresults.com/results/ec2014/ec2014_Men_FS_Scores.pdf

Javier Fernandez:
4T (10.30) + 4S+3T (14.60) + 3A (8.50) + 4S[X] (11.55) + 3Lz+2T[X] (8.03) + 3Lo[X] (5.61) + 3F+1Lo+3S[X] (11.00) + 3S[X] (4.62) = 74.21

Yuzuru > Javier, but only by a fraction of a point. He makes up the rest of the gap with spin levels, etc.

That is actually surprising to me, I thought Yuzuru was a fraction less than Javi, but it didn't matter since Yuzuru gets more points for spins. I swear I saw someone saying Javi's BV was a tiny bit higher sometime ago. I still don't understand why he's not repeating the Flip, I mean the Sal is obviously easier for him but still.
 

Sandpiper

Record Breaker
Joined
Apr 16, 2014
http://www.isuresults.com/results/wc2014/wc2014_Men_FS_Scores.pdf

Yuzuru Hanyu:
4S (10.50) + 4T (10.30) + 3F (5.30) + 3A+3T[X] (13.86) + 3A+2T[X] (10.78) + 3Lo[X] (5.61) + 3Lz+1Lo+3S[X] (11.77) + 3Lz[X] (6.60) = 74.72

Tatsuki Machida
4T (10.30) + 4T+2t (11.60) + 3A+3T (12.60) + 3A[X] (9.35) + 3Lo[X] (5.61) + 3Lz[X] (6.60) + 3F+2T+2Lo[X] (9.24) + 3S[X] (4.62) = 69.92

http://www.isuresults.com/results/ec2013/ec2013_Men_FS_Scores.pdf
http://www.isuresults.com/results/ec2014/ec2014_Men_FS_Scores.pdf

Javier Fernandez:
4T (10.30) + 4S+3T (14.60) + 3A (8.50) + 4S[X] (11.55) + 3Lz+2T[X] (8.03) + 3Lo[X] (5.61) + 3F+1Lo+3S[X] (11.00) + 3S[X] (4.62) = 74.21

Yuzuru > Javier, but only by a fraction of a point. He makes up the rest of the gap with spin levels, etc.
Thank you for this! Pretty much what I suspected. Slight correction about Machida: I think the 4T-2T is meant to be 4T-3T, though that would still place his BV behind the other two.

Javi has both toe and salchow down, unlike Yuzu, but Yuzu makes up for it with his 3As (and Javi shoots himself in the foot by pops/easily Zayaking layout :bang:).
 

AprilS

On the Ice
Joined
Feb 10, 2014
I think it's supposed to be a 2T for Machida. If he did a 4T-3T he would zayak since he's already repeating a 3A and 4T.
 

aftertherain

Record Breaker
Joined
Jan 15, 2010
Thank you for this! Pretty much what I suspected. Slight correction about Machida: I think the 4T-2T is meant to be 4T-3T, though that would still place his BV behind the other two.

I thought it might be, so I looked at some other protocols. At both Rostelecom and the Olympics, it was 4T+2T, so for the time being, I'm going to go with 4T+2T. But it is worthy to note that he did, in fact, go for the 4T+3T in the SP at 2014 Worlds.
 

jennyanydots

On the Ice
Joined
Jul 1, 2013
Max Aaron does two quads and two triple Axels but does a 2-6 layout with all of his triples including axels and combinations in the second half. He isn't dead by the end; he actually gets stronger.

And can Hanyu's fans please stop using the asthma as an excuse? Joshua Farris has asthma too and I've never seen HIM collapse on the ice.

Um, there are varying degrees of asthma and triggers. And it would be ridiculous to assume that Yuzuru doesn't work on his conditioning and isn't getting active treatment for his asthma. Nobody wants to collapse after an LP. Actually it's quite worrisome because if the airway constriction is severe enough it can kill him on the spot.

Back to the 4Lz, yeah, that landing was hard. It does seem like a loud rink but still. Really hope all these skaters don't need double hip and knee replacement surgeries before the age of 40.
 

Sandpiper

Record Breaker
Joined
Apr 16, 2014
I think it's supposed to be a 2T for Machida. If he did a 4T-3T he would zayak since he's already repeating a 3A and 4T.
Right. The Zayak rules still confuse me. I mean, he's repeating a quad and a triple, not two triples. Why not just let him go for 4T-3T? :bang:
 

satine

v Yuki Ishikawa v
Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 13, 2014
Right. The Zayak rules still confuse me. I mean, he's repeating a quad and a triple, not two triples. Why not just let him go for 4T-3T? :bang:

I agree Sandpiper. I appreciate the Zayak rule, but I don't agree with it's specific limitations. Let the skaters have a little freedom with their layouts :frown:
 

unico

Final Flight
Joined
Feb 10, 2014
I agree Sandpiper. I appreciate the Zayak rule, but I don't agree with it's specific limitations. Let the skaters have a little freedom with their layouts :frown:

What do you mean the free program isn't free enough?!?! :p
 

cheerknithanson

Record Breaker
Joined
Jul 13, 2014
Country
United-States
Kevin often doesn't get the rotation either--which also impacts the GOEs. ;) Not to mention his other jumps outside of the quads (not very good) and his PCS (not very good either... though maybe they'll get better now that he's Canada #1 barring a Chan return?)

Ya da da da da da da!!!!! I hope Kevin improves this season. He's one of my 3 #1 favorite skaters! I hope and pray so hard he has a better season.
 

Sandpiper

Record Breaker
Joined
Apr 16, 2014
Ya da da da da da da!!!!! I hope Kevin improves this season. He's one of my 3 #1 favorite skaters! I hope and pray so hard he has a better season.
I like Kevin just fine. I'm just pointing out the reality: he has a UR problem that the rules punish quite harshly, and he doesn't get good GOE or PCS in general.
 

cheerknithanson

Record Breaker
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Jul 13, 2014
Country
United-States
I like Kevin just fine. I'm just pointing out the reality: he has a UR problem that the rules punish quite harshly, and he doesn't get good GOE or PCS in general.

I know. I LOVE Kevin <3 <3 It makes me sad how his technical skills are under-appriciated. And his under-rotation makes it harder for people to see his true talent. He could be one of the greatest skaters ever for his technical skills.

I really wish people could see that he is a great skater. He is.

I hope one day that people will really do. I mean some do, but I feel like not a lot of people appreciate his skills.

Sorry for not making sense.
 

Sandpiper

Record Breaker
Joined
Apr 16, 2014
I know. I LOVE Kevin <3 <3 It makes me sad how his technical skills are under-appriciated. And his under-rotation makes it harder for people to see his true talent. He could be one of the greatest skaters ever for his technical skills.

I really wish people could see that he is a great skater. He is.

I hope one day that people will really do. I mean some do, but I feel like not a lot of people appreciate his skills.

Sorry for not making sense.
Well, I'm not sure about potential to be the greatest ever, but I do think the rules over-punish him for the URs. And I actually find Kevin a much better performer than the other Quad King, Timothy Goebel. But sadly, I don't think he'll be able to match Goebel's competitive record.

It'll be interesting to see how he handles the pressure of being Canada #1 next season. Hopefully he got the jitters out of the way at 2014 Worlds. My biggest wish: Please no screamo music, even if the new lyrics rule says you can... :slink:
 

Meoima

Match Penalty
Joined
Feb 13, 2014
Well, I'm not sure about potential to be the greatest ever, but I do think the rules over-punish him for the URs. And I actually find Kevin a much better performer than the other Quad King, Timothy Goebel. But sadly, I don't think he'll be able to match Goebel's competitive record.

It'll be interesting to see how he handles the pressure of being Canada #1 next season. Hopefully he got the jitters out of the way at 2014 Worlds. My biggest wish: Please no screamo music, even if the new lyrics rule says you can... :slink:
Why not, I like heavy metal. Just image the judges' expressions when they heard the music. :popcorn:
 

Sandpiper

Record Breaker
Joined
Apr 16, 2014
Why not, I like heavy metal. Just image the judges' expressions when they heard the music. :popcorn:
I like rock music, but only when it's singing, not screaming. (Same reason I don't like rap). But you make a good point about the judges' expressions. Might be worth it just for that. :p
 
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