Kovtun vs. Hanyu | Golden Skate

Kovtun vs. Hanyu

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Alba

Alba

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I know their has been some opinions on who is better. :rolleye:
I think Maxim has more talent, but I feel the ISU (not only Japan Fed) puts more "effort" into Yuzuru than the Russian fed into Maxim. :disapp:
Although he might look akward his musicality is second to none, and his long arm movements are just beautiful.

Also, I think Yuzuru has jumps only to make him stand out more, and of course Mr. Pooh which is adorable. :love:

Let's discuss this. No fightings please. :popcorn:ù

By the way, are they done growing? I'm worried about that too. :think:
 
Meoima

Meoima

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I think it's not right to say Russian Fed put less effort into Kovtun than Japan Fed into Yuzuru.
They let him win the national, sent him to Europe and Worlds. But he placed badly.
At both Europe recently he placed 5th.
Worlds 2013 he placed 17th.
The results was not ideal. So if I were the Russian Fed, I would try to send someone who looks more promise at Worlds. Thus they sent Plushy to Sochi.
 
Alba

Alba

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Meoima said:
I think it's not right to say Russian Fed put less effort into Kovtun than Japan Fed into Yuzuru.
They let him win the national, sent him to Europe and Worlds. But he placed badly.
At both Europe recently he placed 5th.
Worlds 2013 he placed 17th.
The results was not ideal. So if I were the Russian Fed, I would try to send someone who looks more promise at Worlds. Thus they sent Plushy to Sochi.
Click to expand...

Yeah but who's better, Yuzuru or Kovtun?
That's the real question here. :p
 
Meoima

Meoima

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Alba said:
Yeah but who's better, Yuzuru or Kovtun?
That's the real question here. :p
Click to expand...
In term of spin I think Yuzuru has better spin. He has better spins than most man.

In term of basic skills and speed, it's Yuzuru.

In term of jumps, both have some issue. With Kovtun it's his posture into the jumps. With Yuzuru it's the consistency of his 4S, and he lip now and then (9/15 competition).

I have seen clips in which Kovtun tried 4T3A then failed on VK and Denis Ten gave him some advice. And I have seen many clips in which Yuzuru succeed 4T3A3A3A and execute 3A from a standstill. So I think it's okay to say Yuzuru has more raw jumping talents.

In term of stamina Yuzuru is always in short if you compare him to everyone.

In term of growing I think both has done.

In term of attitude, I don't think there is much to say. Once poster said Kovtun called Russian football fans prostitute and had to delete his twitter right after that.
 
shiroKJ

shiroKJ

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Interesting, because I think the complete opposite. The only thing that makes Kovtun stand out to me is his jumps or rather the number of jumps he has in his program (which I do not enjoy aesthetically btw).
For me : Yuzuru's a great technician, a great spinner, and has great flexibility but there's always another skater who's better than him at each of those things. He has great musicality when he has the right programs for him (IMO This and this) but not always. He also has good SS and not so great posture :laugh: And he has the "it" factor (Something I feel Kovtun does not)

He manages to put all these aspect together better than anyone else which is why he has won every major title on every level. Although whether you like him as a skater or not is purely personal preference. *shrugs* IMO he's far from his peak and can be a lot better than he is right now.

And about the ISU putting more "effort" in Yuzuru (whatever that means). First a skater has to deliver before anyone "invests" in them. Just saying.
 
I

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I agree with ShiroKJ in that although there are others who are much better in parts of their skills, like posture, SS, stamina, musicality etc, it is Hanyu who at this time puts it all together consistently and is therefore the 'better skater'. I have yet to see Kovtun do this. He does have great potential though and it is something I look forward to seeing. IMO, his programs last year did not show off his strong points enough.
Hanyu has great confidence in his skating and a real love for competition. These are 'intangibles' but they help him out despite his weaknesses.
 
karne

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Hanyu is a far better skater than Kovtun. Better basics, for a start. Even better artistry. And heck. I'll take Hanyu's splat quad Sals over Kovtun's hunched-over yukjumps every single time.

I also think it's bunk that the RuFed haven't put as much energy into Kovtun. Are we forgetting that this kid was sent to Euros over Menshov and Gachinski with no other competitive record than a dubious Junior Grand Prix Final win? And then turned around finished 17th at Worlds and was the REAL reason there was only one Olympic spot available? His TSS at that Worlds was actually LOWER than Gachinski's eighteenth place the year before, and Gachinski was lambasted from pillar to post about it.

Kovtun has been riding the RuFed's favouritism for the past couple of years. I dearly hope Gachinski, Voronov and Menshov can knock him from his perch this year.

As to growth - well, a few years ago, I'd have said yes, they're done. But Artur grew at 19. Now I'm not so sure.
 
Meoima

Meoima

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I think it's okay to make some comparison, though.

- They are the same age, technically. Kovtun is only 6 months younger than Yuzuru (then why does he looks 6 years older than Yuzuru?)
- They are both their nation's number 1 right now.
- They all competed against national darlings and won. With Kovtun it's Plushy. With Yuzuru it's Dai. And when they won they were not much welcomed by the fans in general.
- They both have jumping ability.
- They both have problem with their posture.
- They both have support from their Fed.
- They both haven't have a defined style yet.
- They both have 3 quads. Yuzuru the loop, toe loop and salchow (But I am not sure if he had already successful landed the quad lutz). Kovtun the lutz, toe loop and salchow.

But from here are the differences:
- Basic skills and speed, Yuzuru better
- Flow out or jump, Yuzuru better
- Spins, Yuzuru better
- Layout and the ability to execute that layout, Yuzuru better
- Attitude, Yuzuru better. Both on and off ice. Lol
- Achievements, Yuzuru wins by default.
- Bad habit of stalking the quads, Kovtun. Sorry Kovtun but your jumps position are not ideal either.
- Stamina, Kovtun might win this round. They said he cam jump 5 quads consecutively in one training session. But seriously, I've heard all the top guys practice 50 quads a day so it might be not something for only Kovtun to be proud of.

In conclusion: Can we take Kovtun's stamina and give it to Yuzuru, please? I would rather watch Yuzuru with perfect stamina than Kovtun's generic programs.
 
Alba

Alba

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Since Kovtun is only 6 months younger than Yuzuru (then why does he looks 6 years okder than Yuzuru?)
Click to expand...

That's true. I suppose it's his face/look though. Nothing he can do about it.
Unless you're referring to his style/skating?
 
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