The Grishuk-Zhulin Partnership: Olympic Champion Potential?

I thought they had the technical goods to win the 2002 Olympics, and I also enjoyed their artistry. Am I crazy?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mIhkyDu0Y7Q
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f9IuJgUJNZw

Thanks for posting those.....I've not seen them and I thoroughly enjoyed them!!!

I wouldn't like to offend anybody, but those dances, especially "Smooth Operator", are so tacky. Sorry, but I see no artistry here.

I agree with Rossig. Smooth Operator was full of two foot or side by side skating. Unbreak My Heart is better, but in both Pasha is doing almost all the what footwork they chose to include. Too many crossovers. Plus I always got the feeling that I was watching the affair play out all over again on ice.

Usova and Platov were better IMO. I'm not saying that because they were the "wronged parties" but because they created real programs like this one where they shared the skating difficulty more equally.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RpP3eYn7EFQ (I was in the audience for this. The crowd was even more in their corner than the clip lets on.)

Er, I wasn't interested in 2xSasha for their skating so much as the intrigue, LOL

Thanks for all the comments. I'm a little sad to see that their artistry wasn't a hit. I thought kitsch was on the "in" these days, and the "Unbreak My Heart" program definitely sets of my kitsch radar!

jcoates, thanks for sharing the Usova-Platov video. I hadn't watched that one in a long time. I agree that they didn't demonstrate a wide variety of skating skills, but I don't think that stops many skaters from winning medals or getting fans, and it especially didn't in that era. I recall many announcers making a big point that Fusar-Poli and Margaglio were faster than Anissina and Peizerat in 2001 while making little or no mention of the technical differences (difficulty of steps, sharing of difficulty between partners, etc.) It seems that skating skills = speed to the layperson.

BounceAround, It is true that speed did win out over steps very often in those days, but IIRC the judging panel at World Pros that year (in the link I posted) was an ISU panel, thus the 6.0 instead on 10.0 scale was used. Olympic eligibles were allowed to compete, so Kwan won her only World Pro title. I believe she skated the full version of her Arianne (sp?) FS and showed off her temporary short hair. So the ISU judges did seem to rate the tougher program of U/P over G/Z in both segments of the event. (G/Z also skated the Unbreak My Heart Progam against U/P's Moonlight Sonata)

ETA: Here are Kwan's programs from that event.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DzIMASKRm_4 (technical program)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BQ0reeUnAmE (artistic program)

I had mixed feelings about the judging at the '98 World Pros.

I was surprised that the judges did the right thing and gave Punsalan and Swallow 1st in the technical program. Even though their basic skating wasn't as strong as the other two teams, their technical program was by far the most difficult. They were the only team to have a real step sequence (or anything resembling steps at all) in that segment, and I think the Tango program was their best program in terms of choreography. 2/3 judges still gave them lower technical marks than Usova-Platov...

While Usova and Platov had the most difficult and most cleanly skated artistic program, I thought their technical program was the easiest. It was very theatrical and clean, but the program was mostly crossovers and lifts. At least Oksana (Pasha? What does she prefer these days?) had some difficult turns in her technical program, and I thought Grishuk-Zhulin's lifts were better. I would have given Grishuk-Zhulin 2nd in the technical program based on superior skating quality. It's tough for me to say that because I haven't skated for so long and both teams have such different strengths, but I give the nod to Grishuk-Zhulin based on superior edging, power, and Oksana's turning ability. For the same reasons, I would have given Grishuk-Zhulin 2nd in the artistic program over Punsalan and Swallow. The latter's artistic program was not my cup of tea in any way at all, and without the difficultly I did not think there was any reason for them to beat Grishuk-Zhulin.

Based on the marks, absolute and relative, given to Punsalan and Swallow and Usova-Platov got in the artistic program, I do think the scandal was a factor in the judging. ISU judges seem to play into the entertainment aspect of these events when they participate. I don't have time to watch Michelle's programs at the moment, but didn't Sissy Krick give her a 6.0? She landed 7 triples, but it was clear to me she could have skated much better. Her Nationals program that year, had she not fallen on the 2nd lutz, was 6.0 worthy to me. They used ISU judges at a pro event in Japan last year, and I had similar issues with the judging there.

Grishuk and Platov have always been my favorite dancers. At the time, I was disappointed that their partnership ended, but looking back I think Platov had endured all the "Pasha" drama he could take by that time. He did stick with her longer than anyone else considering they went through 3 coaches in their 8 year senior career. I can't imagine that Grishuk and Zhulin, two seemingly high maintenance personalities, could have coexisted long enough to make a successful Olympic run, and even if they tried who on earth would sign on to coach such a combustible team. While watching U/P and G/Z as pros I was left thinking over and over how much better each team was with their original partners. I never thought Zhulin presented Grishuk as well as Platov did, it was as though he was competing with her for the spot light rather than highlighting and truly partnering her. I was really glad to see that after the birth of her daughter and the passing of time that G/P were able to resolve their differences and become friends and partners again to end their careers.
Below is the link to their first skate back together in 2006, they were obviously beyond their prime and limited by a small rink but to me they were still magical together.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RFA5hMIfU40

I thought G/Z were pretty good, but not as good as either had been with their previous partners, and U/P were a little better. I don't think either of these new teams would have challenged for the 2002 Olympic gold, though, even if they had upped the technical difficulty in their programs.

Eh! Wasn't impressed/

It takes time to form a partnership so both Gritchuk and Zhulin and Usova and Platov would have had that to deal with. Besides the team that should have probably won OGM in 2002 had to retire due to injuries - Krylova and Oksianikov. I truly think that Zhulin and Pasha destroyed a very special team in Usova and Zhulin they had such passion before the "fall from grace" so to speak. Relationships or broken ones really can destroy lives and OGM. Sadly it helped garner two OGM for the frantic, frenetic and flailing arms of Pasha (who for the record should not have dyed her hair blonde as I believe that was the same time Baiul did it too- since she didn't want to be confused with Baiul. Ironically both Oksana's had the long frizzy hair for a wild too.

Ahhh...the memories! I cant separate my feeling from the dance....I just hope Maya is happy...I know Mr. Platov is a class act.....I still see him at events....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w227JiWLImM

jcoates said:

Plus I always got the feeling that I was watching the affair play out all over again on ice.

Usova and Platov were better IMO. I'm not saying that because they were the "wronged parties" but because they created real programs like this one where they shared the skating difficulty more equally.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RpP3eYn7EFQ (I was in the audience for this. The crowd was even more in their corner than the clip lets on.)

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I was privileged to have the opportunity to watch U/P train daily in those later years while they were with Tarasova in Wall, NJ. How exciting - to see how a dance is broken down...started...worked out in sections...put together. Loved these two. Also training here at that time were Yagudin and other top level dancers & some up & coming. French & Italian dancers seemed to come in the summer for her training.
One day I was talking with Maya and Yvgeney immediately came over...seemed "protective" of her.
Enjoyed my daily visits and interaction but alas it didnt last too long. Tarasova then moved her stable back to Conn.

GypsyFe said:

I was privileged to have the opportunity to watch U/P train daily in those later years while they were with Tarasova in Wall, NJ. How exciting - to see how a dance is broken down...started...worked out in sections...put together. Loved these two. Also training here at that time were Yagudin and other top level dancers & some up & coming. French & Italian dancers seemed to come in the summer for her training.
One day I was talking with Maya and Yvgeney immediately came over...seemed "protective" of her.
Enjoyed my daily visits and interaction but alas it didnt last too long. Tarasova then moved her stable back to Conn.

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That's a very cool story. Thanks for sharing.

They werent very good. They were even often losing to Usova & Platov who were no great team, and would come dead last at most future world pros themselves.

Sasha and Pasha skated in different styles, plus they were vulgar. In addition, they have 9 years of age difference, they could not be in the sport on an equal footing.

marcustoronto said:

They werent very good. They were even often losing to Usova & Platov who were no great team, and would come dead last at most future world pros themselves.

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Oh well, they would lose to U&P given the love that fans have for ridiculous "love" stories, and gossiping in FS.
Maya was the "poor victim" after all, and G&Z were the evil ones. You can't win against that, no matter what.

Later, Zhulin said that he too was a victim. Pasha seduced him out of greed.