Mirai Nagasu's future prospects | Page 10 | Golden Skate

Mirai Nagasu's future prospects

drivingmissdaisy

Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 17, 2010
Questioning someone's work ethic is definitely not defamation. Calling someone lazy is not a factual statement, but rather an opinion.
 

coolboogie22

Match Penalty
Joined
Jun 21, 2009
The speculation comes from some off the cuff comments she made in the past (~2011-12) about the days she didn't train in PS with FrankC and how (her process) she was training on her own along with off-the-record comments overheard from previous coaches about stubborness and work ethic.

Come on guys, it ridiculous to make rumor about someone that we don't know at all and all thoses athlete would not be there if they would not work hard in training. For a 3rd place finisher at nationals and a 3rd place at CoR, I can totally say that Mirai is a hardworker, not every skater archive what she does.
 

chuckm

Record Breaker
Joined
Aug 31, 2003
Country
United-States
Yes, Mirai finished 3rd at CoR 2013 and 3rd at US Nationals 2014. But she also finished 8th at NHK 2013 and 10th at 4CC 2014. She was 3rd at 4CC 2011 and 2nd at CoC 2011 but 5th at SC 2011. She was 3rd at Nationals 2011 but 7th at Nationals 2012 and 7th Nationals 2013. At any given competition, you never know which Mirai is going to show up.
 

LiamForeman

William/Uilyam
Medalist
Joined
Nov 24, 2006
Come on guys, it ridiculous to make rumor about someone that we don't know at all and all thoses athlete would not be there if they would not work hard in training. For a 3rd place finisher at nationals and a 3rd place at CoR, I can totally say that Mirai is a hardworker, not every skater archive what she does.

Well, I think when people are saying lazy or not hardworking, it's relative. Obviously a lazy person who doesn't work hard would never reach elite status. But it is frustrating to see someone with so much talent not maximize it due to a questionable effort. Tonya Harding was Olympic gold caliber yet her work ethic or lack thereof is well documented. However to still even do a triple jump takes hard work. It is all the more frustrating when a skater with unlimited potential does not maximize their talent because they aren't putting in that extra effort. I'm surprised Nagasu is continuing, but hopefully she'll find a coach that she clicks with and reaches her potential.
 

Alba

Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 26, 2014
Questioning someone's work ethic is definitely not defamation. Calling someone lazy is not a factual statement, but rather an opinion.

I'm sorry but how calling someone lazy can be called an opinion? Saying "She looks like she is undertrained to me" can be an opinion.
Saying "she is lazy" or "she is known to have work issues" it's stating a fact, which needs evidence.
 

ice coverage

avatar credit: @miyan5605
Record Breaker
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Feb 27, 2012

drivingmissdaisy

Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 17, 2010
Saying "she is lazy" or "she is known to have work issues" it's stating a fact, which needs evidence.

Lazy is a relative term; what you consider lazy I may not. I certainly don't know enough about her regimen to state one way or the other, but we have a lot of skaters on the boards who train in the same rinks as these athletes and have credible information.
 

Alba

Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 26, 2014
Lazy is a relative term; what you consider lazy I may not. .

I'm a bit confused. Sorry english is not my mother tongue, so correct me if I'm wrong but I only know this meaning: http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/english/lazy

I certainly don't know enough about her regimen to state one way or the other, but we have a lot of skaters on the boards who train in the same rinks as these athletes and have credible information.

What I read here were comments from users making ref. about some rumors on her having work ethic issues under Frank, but according to Hersh that is not the case.
So that's why I asked, in my first comment, about these rumors. Are you saying that there are skaters here, in this forum, who knows her and confirmed that?

Anyway, I don't want this to become an issue here.
 

mskater93

Record Breaker
Joined
Oct 22, 2005
Come on guys, it ridiculous to make rumor about someone that we don't know at all and all thoses athlete would not be there if they would not work hard in training. For a 3rd place finisher at nationals and a 3rd place at CoR, I can totally say that Mirai is a hardworker, not every skater archive what she does.

What I recall reading is NOT a rumor, nor did I make it up. She mentioned in a presser when she was with FrankC and making the 2 hour drive a few days a week that the days she was skating at Arcadia (not in PS), she didn't train the same way (something about not running programs and some days just "playing around" on the ice) as she did when she was in PS. I know you are a big fan of Mirai since you wrote some unkind posts about Ashley when she was named to the Olympic and World team over Mirai and even went so far as to suggest Ashley should decline, but if you have a skating background at all, you can see the preparedness of a skater at a competition and there have been a number of times that Mirai doesn't look prepared to skate her programs in the speed she carries throughout the program and her ability to fully rotate her jumps, particularly in the back half of her program.

I am not saying she's lazy, you can't be "lazy" and make it to the Senior/Elite level. I am saying that whatever her training method for her programs has been to date, it's either not consistent (because she crams) or not working for her. Also, she had mentioned that she had worked the hardest running programs multiple times daily when she was sharing the ice with Evan Lysacek before 2010 Nationals and the Olympics and those were two of her absolute best outings.

I am saying her training is not as optimal as Gracie, Ashley, Polina, etc. I have seen first hand Gracie's training method and that includes multiple run throughs of each program daily and I have read about Ashley's training book of # of run throughs/# clean run throughs and tracking of mistakes. I have never heard Mirai discuss her methods...
 

skatedreamer

Medalist
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Feb 18, 2014
Country
United-States
What I recall reading is NOT a rumor, nor did I make it up. She mentioned in a presser when she was with FrankC and making the 2 hour drive a few days a week that the days she was skating at Arcadia (not in PS), she didn't train the same way (something about not running programs and some days just "playing around" on the ice) as she did when she was in PS.

A 2-hour drive several times a week followed by an intense training session and the same drive home seems incredibly grueling to me. Each person is different, though. Presumably some skaters can do just fine in this scenario, others not so much. Maybe Mirai is one who can't -- it may be less about motivation/work ethic and more about energy and physical stamina. If you don't have the energy, concentration is a real challenge and your work will be sub-par.
 

mskater93

Record Breaker
Joined
Oct 22, 2005
A 2-hour drive several times a week followed by an intense training session and the same drive home seems incredibly grueling to me. Each person is different, though. Presumably some skaters can do just fine in this scenario, others not so much. Maybe Mirai is one who can't -- it may be less about motivation/work ethic and more about energy and physical stamina. If you don't have the energy, concentration is a real challenge and your work will be sub-par.

:think: I would like to think if I had been in her shoes, I would have found a way to motivate to push on the days I wasn't in PS and didn't have the grueling 4 hour commute to work exactly as I do on those long car ride days to make those long days with FrankC worthwhile.

It also seemed that after they determined that the long distance thing wasn't working and she moved on to another coach that her training process didn't appreciably improve as there were more uneven results/performances. What can that be attributed to since she wasn't traveling 2 hours each way for "grueling training"? :think:

In listening to/reading her interviews, Mirai doesn't strike me as having been an internally motivated skater up to now. She was motivated training with Evan Lysacek. She usually has a good event after a disappointing or bad event as if she almost needs that disappointment/embarrassment to focus and work hard. She skated well at Nationals this year since there was the motivation to try and make the Olympic team if she was on the podium. That's fine, as not everyone is internally motivated, but if she can't find that drive and motivation on her own or have a coach that understands her need for external motivation and be able to provide that, she will be doomed to not meet her enormous potential as a skater, which is pretty sad.
 

karne

in Emergency Backup Mode
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Joined
Jan 1, 2013
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Australia
I thought I remembered reading that Frank offered to help her move, even found a nice family for her to stay with, so that she wouldn't have to drive the two hours each way, but she refused and CHOSE to keep up with the two hour drive.
 

Alba

Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 26, 2014
but if you have a skating background at all, you can see the preparedness of a skater at a competition and there have been a number of times that Mirai doesn't look prepared to skate her programs in the speed she carries throughout the program and her ability to fully rotate her jumps, particularly in the back half of her program.

I'm interested about this aspect.
I don't have a skating background so I wouldn't be able to see that. I mean, I can see when a skater is tired in the second half of the program, or when they lack in speed but I thought this isn't much about how much you train, work.
I remember that Yagudin and Irina had some issues with their energy and stamina in the second half of their programs? I don't know if it's the same thing you're referring though.
 

b-man

Final Flight
Joined
Jun 25, 2010
I thought I remembered reading that Frank offered to help her move, even found a nice family for her to stay with, so that she wouldn't have to drive the two hours each way, but she refused and CHOSE to keep up with the two hour drive.

Yes, after the disappointing 2012 Nationals, Frank wanted her to move to Palm Springs, and if finances were a problem, offered to find her a family to stay with at minimal/no cost. My understanding is Mirai's parents, not Mirai, rejected the offer, and Frank then set her up with coach Olson in the LA area instead for the 2012-13 season. Mirai moving to Colorado Springs now is a big deal for her, she is now 21 and moving away from her parents for the first time.

I think way to many people assume if you train hard, that automatically results in success. It doesn't. One of the biggest obstacles to success in major competitions is handling pressure. I think Mirai had trouble handling pressure at the 2012 Nationals, but she is by no means the only one. In the Boston Nationals, pressure certainly got to Gao, Agnes, and to a lesser extent Wagner. I don't believe for a minute these three skaters went to Boston undertrained, I believe the pressure got to them. Nagasu, on the other hand, went to Boston without a primary coach, skated very well and didn't let the pressure affect her performance.
 

ice coverage

avatar credit: @miyan5605
Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 27, 2012
I thought I remembered reading that Frank offered to help her move, even found a nice family for her to stay with, so that she wouldn't have to drive the two hours each way, but she refused and CHOSE to keep up with the two hour drive.

Yes, after the disappointing 2012 Nationals, Frank wanted her to move to Palm Springs, and if finances were a problem, offered to find her a family to stay with at minimal/no cost. My understanding is Mirai's parents, not Mirai, rejected the offer, and Frank then set her up with coach Olson in the LA area instead for the 2012-13 season. Mirai moving to Colorado Springs now is a big deal for her, she is now 21 and moving away from her parents for the first time.

I think way to many people assume if you train hard, that automatically results in success. It doesn't. One of the biggest obstacles to success in major competitions is handling pressure. I think Mirai had trouble handling pressure at the 2012 Nationals, but she is by no means the only one. In the Boston Nationals, pressure certainly got to Gao, Agnes, and to a lesser extent Wagner. I don't believe for a minute these three skaters went to Boston undertrained, I believe the pressure got to them. Nagasu, on the other hand, went to Boston without a primary coach, skated very well and didn't let the pressure affect her performance.

Thanks to b-man for reminding us that training hard does not automatically result in success in competition. :agree: Important point.

Not fair for any of us to question the Nagasu family's decision to decline Carroll's offer re Palm Springs. The Nagasus could have had any number of good reasons (not all necessarily related to skating).
Only each skater and her/his family can fully understand their personal circumstances, dynamics, priorities, etc. Some skaters leave home earlier, some later.
In some cases, skaters who move significant distances have one or family members at their side (e.g., Gracie Gold, Max Aaron).
Davis/White have said repeatedly that they were extremely fortunate that they NEVER had to leave home (and/or their hometown area) throughout their career. They lucked out that the finest coaching always was nearby. In contrast, Virtue/Moir left home as young teens and had separate boarding arrangements in Kitchener/Waterloo. In V/M's case, they at least had each other to serve as surrogate "family," attending the same school and training long hours together.
IIRC, Jason Brown and his parents made an active decision for him to remain at home until he had graduated from high school. With the mutual commitment btwn Kori Ade and him, he did not have to face a tough choice whether or not to leave home any earlier for the sake of his skating.
 

mskater93

Record Breaker
Joined
Oct 22, 2005
I'm interested about this aspect.
I don't have a skating background so I wouldn't be able to see that. I mean, I can see when a skater is tired in the second half of the program, or when they lack in speed but I thought this isn't much about how much you train, work.
I remember that Yagudin and Irina had some issues with their energy and stamina in the second half of their programs? I don't know if it's the same thing you're referring though.

You can see they are tired as a fan. To me as a skater, it means that unless there are extenuating circumstances, this usually points to poor training plan (IOW, the skater is not doing enough run throughs so that they are on "auto pilot" from a trust in their training when they compete. This # of run throughs is different for different skaters, but there is an optimal number for each skater/program). This is why usually you see skaters improve through out the competitive season - they are getting more and more miles on the program so to speak as the season progresses until they know it backward and forward like their own name and don't have to consciously focus on each thing in the program because they KNOW they are going to do it because they "do it every day" or "do it every session" or whatever their optimal training plan is. You learn about what that is for yourself over time and to be as successful as you can be, you work within that optimal plan.

For example, when I get a new program, one of the things we work on is WHERE to take deep breaths. The first month or so, I really have to focus on each and every thing in the program (movement, elements, breathing) or else I miss details OR I "hit the wall" before I am done with the program because I am holding my breath/am breathing too shallowly. Once I get enough run throughs in, the breathing part becomes unconscious and I find my dead zone later/at the end. This movement from thinking consciously to unconsciously seems to be what is missing.
 

chuckm

Record Breaker
Joined
Aug 31, 2003
Country
United-States
I remember that Yagudin and Irina had some issues with their energy and stamina in the second half of their programs? I don't know if it's the same thing you're referring though.

Yagudin sometimes overtrained, which caused him to lose too much weight, and that sapped his stamina.

Irina had a serious medical condition which had put her in the hospital for almost a year. When she recovered and returned to competition, she had to be on steroids to keep her illness under control, and the medication caused her to retain fluid in her body. Fluid retention was much worse when she had to travel by plane long distances. Irina did have problems sometimes with her long programs, especially when she was on higher dosages of her medication.
 

Icey

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 28, 2012
I thought I remembered reading that Frank offered to help her move, even found a nice family for her to stay with, so that she wouldn't have to drive the two hours each way, but she refused and CHOSE to keep up with the two hour drive.

And then when Frank decided to train Evan, she would have had to uproot herself again, notwithstanding it being back to LA.
 
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