Mirai Nagasu's future prospects | Page 12 | Golden Skate

Mirai Nagasu's future prospects

Alba

Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 26, 2014
When Irina first came back after her illness she was on very heavy dosages of steroids and her skating was sluggish in the beginning. Her doctors gradually weaned her off the drugs and her skating got stronger, even better than before she became ill. But sometimes she would begin to have symptoms of her illness again and the dosage would have to increase again, and you'd see that in her performances. Her 2006 Olympic performance wasn't one of her best, and may have been affected by a higher dose of steroids than usual.

Yes, I remember that. Her performance in 2005 was very good though. :) Although you could see that by the end she was exhausted.
I might be wrong but I sometimes had the feeling that even the music choice of her programs didn't help.
I don't know but they were too heavy and she needed a lot of energy to follow those music and perform. :think:
 

skatedreamer

Medalist
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Feb 18, 2014
Country
United-States
What does it mean "muscle memory"?

The best way I can describe muscle memory is that it's the way your muscles "remember" certain movements after you've trained them for a long time. You reach point where you don't necessarily have to think about the movement -- it just happens, sort of by instinct.

On the violin, I would think it's like practicing scales or arpeggios every day so your fingers know exactly where to place themselves on the strings so that the pitches are in tune. Or possibly working on bowing technique to achieve greater dynamic control or a certain tone quality. After a while, your arm just knows, somehow. On another level, I guess it could also be analogous to memorizing a piece -- when you know the notes so well that again, they just sort of "happen" without effort, or at least not the kind of effort required when you're first learning the music. The notes are there in your subconscious and you're free to focus your conscious effort on the nuances and subtleties that go into a really fine performance.
 

UnsaneLily87

On the Ice
Joined
Mar 8, 2006
Absolutely. :thumbsup:



Thanks. :)

What does it mean "muscle memory"? Also, I'm interested about the peak condition at the right moment. How do you reach that?
I suppose there is a method?

Muscle Memory is when you practice something so many times you no longer need to think about it to do it. Your body has become so familiar with the movements that even if you're nervous or scared or distracted, you can still land the jumps because you've done them so many times before. I think this is why Sasha Cohen struggled. She didn't run her full programs as much as other skaters and therefore when she would get nervous, she'd inevitably make mistakes. I experienced this firsthand. The more I trained, the less nerves could affect me. Man, I miss skating.

Peaking is interesting--each coach has their own methods (and skating is definitely not the only sport that does that). As far as I know, the general consensus is a cycle of practicing hard alternating with lighter practices. The way you space these and time these changes throughout the season. So maybe 3 weeks before nationals you'd practice hard, the last few days are lighter, the week after is lighter and then you're back into even HARDER practice before the Olympics.
 

Alba

Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 26, 2014
Muscle Memory is when you practice something so many times you no longer need to think about it to do it. Your body has become so familiar with the movements that even if you're nervous or scared or distracted, you can still land the jumps because you've done them so many times before. I think this is why Sasha Cohen struggled. She didn't run her full programs as much as other skaters and therefore when she would get nervous, she'd inevitably make mistakes. I experienced this firsthand. The more I trained, the less nerves could affect me. Man, I miss skating.

When you say run her full programs its when skaters do not skate the whole program in the training, right? Like, they might work hard on each element of their program, but they do not skate enough the whole program, from start to end.
Yep, it's like this with instruments as well.

Peaking is interesting--each coach has their own methods (and skating is definitely not the only sport that does that). As far as I know, the general consensus is a cycle of practicing hard alternating with lighter practices. The way you space these and time these changes throughout the season. So maybe 3 weeks before nationals you'd practice hard, the last few days are lighter, the week after is lighter and then you're back into even HARDER practice before the Olympics

I understand. You are right, skating is not the only sport that does that.
It's used in football as well, and methods are different. For example, the physical preparation for the National League season & CL season it's different from the preparation for the World Cup or Euros.
The later two are short tournments while the national and CL season it's like 9 month.

On the violin, I would think it's like practicing scales or arpeggios every day so your fingers know exactly where to place themselves on the strings so that the pitches are in tune. Or possibly working on bowing technique to achieve greater dynamic control or a certain tone quality. After a while, your arm just knows, somehow.

I was thinking exactly about that when reading UnsaneLily87 comment (I read yours after). :agree:
The same with pianoforte. You don't have to look/wonder where the right key is for this or that note.
 

UnsaneLily87

On the Ice
Joined
Mar 8, 2006
When you say run her full programs its when skaters do not skate the whole program in the training, right? Like, they might work hard on each element of their program, but they do not skate enough the whole program, from start to end.
Yep, it's like this with instruments as well.



I understand. You are right, skating is not the only sport that does that.
It's used in football as well, and methods are different. For example, the physical preparation for the National League season & CL season it's different from the preparation for the World Cup or Euros.
The later two are short tournments while the national and CL season it's like 9 month.



I was thinking exactly about that when reading UnsaneLily87 comment (I read yours after). :agree:
The same with pianoforte. You don't have to look/wonder where the right key is for this or that note.

It's exactly like music! A lot of skaters will skate their program through with the choreography and spins, and not do all of their jumps. They'd train their jumps separately. Or they'd just do sections. These are the skaters you see struggling with consistency (more often than not).
 

Alba

Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 26, 2014
It's exactly like music! A lot of skaters will skate their program through with the choreography and spins, and not do all of their jumps. They'd train their jumps separately. Or they'd just do sections. These are the skaters you see struggling with consistency (more often than not).

I heard F.Carroll once saying that the Russian method was like this. I wonder if Yulia does differently for being so consistent.
 

tulosai

Record Breaker
Joined
Dec 21, 2011
I heard F.Carroll once saying that the Russian method was like this. I wonder if Yulia does differently for being so consistent.

I don't see her practice day to day (obviously) but have been very very surprised watching her practice sessions at competitions. She rarely if ever does a full run through and mostly just marks her programs. Then she will do jumps over and over- usually the same jump over and over. She will fall maybe once ona jump, then land 8 or 9 more of the same jump, then move on. I have never seen her do a real run through in practice footage. I don't know if it is different when she trains day to day though. Either way it's been very surprising to me.

ETA: And I have seen A LOT Of video of her practicing and read a lot of reports about it- probably all or nearly all that is out there. I am obsessed with her.
 

Alba

Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 26, 2014
I don't see her practice day to day (obviously) but have been very very surprised watching her practice sessions at competitions. She rarely if ever does a full run through and mostly just marks her programs. Then she will do jumps over and over- usually the same jump over and over. She will fall maybe once ona jump, then land 8 or 9 more of the same jump, then move on. I have never seen her do a real run through in practice footage. I don't know if it is different when she trains day to day though. Either way it's been very surprising to me.

So most probably she trains with the "Russian method".

ETA: And I have seen A LOT Of video of her practicing and read a lot of reports about it- probably all or nearly all that is out there. I am obsessed with her

Really? :laugh:
That's a surprise. I didn't know that you liked her. :)
 

fleeting

Queen Anissina
Medalist
Joined
Feb 19, 2014
I'm nervous about her GP events. I believe if Tom lobbies for 2, he could get them, with her being national bronze medalist and all. But she is on the B-envelope again, per the press release this morning.

However, I'm excited to see what Adam choreographed for her competitive programs though. He did a great job with her Demons exhibition on SOI this year. I'm very impatient for the upcoming season!
 

chuckm

Record Breaker
Joined
Aug 31, 2003
Country
United-States
Tom lobbying for her won't get her two GP events. Being in the top 12 at Worlds guarantees you two events; being top 24 on the ISU World Ranking list and/or Seasons Best list can help you get GP events. Mirai is #23 on WR and #24 on SB before retired skaters are removed, so she has a good chance to get two events, but it is not guaranteed. We will know later on today.
 

flutzy13

On the Ice
Joined
Nov 12, 2012
I'm nervous about her GP events. I believe if Tom lobbies for 2, he could get them, with her being national bronze medalist and all. But she is on the B-envelope again, per the press release this morning.

However, I'm excited to see what Adam choreographed for her competitive programs though. He did a great job with her Demons exhibition on SOI this year. I'm very impatient for the upcoming season!

I think she'll get 2 GPs by virtue of the field being smaller with the retirements and her ranking. I'm sure NHK will be one.

She was never getting Team A funding which always goes to national champions and those who place well at Worlds/Olympics. By not giving her either of those assignments, USFS basically assured her B funding. I know Hubbell and Donohue got it but I think it's Team A, Tier 2 and only because they won 4CC. Mirai wasn't even close to the podium.
 

karne

in Emergency Backup Mode
Record Breaker
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Jan 1, 2013
Country
Australia
She got Skate America. Can this be the end of the "USFSA HATES MIRAI" rubbish now please?
 

fleeting

Queen Anissina
Medalist
Joined
Feb 19, 2014
She got Skate America. Can this be the end of the "USFSA HATES MIRAI" rubbish now please?

I definitely agree that her getting a SA was a sign of goodwill.
But I also think that Aaron and Denney/Coughlin getting Worlds (even though D/C dropped it considering injury) because of national bronze but Mirai getting passed over was also a sign that she was expendable among the US ladies field :confused2:
 

karne

in Emergency Backup Mode
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Joined
Jan 1, 2013
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Australia
I definitely agree that her getting a SA was a sign of goodwill.
But I also think that Aaron and Denney/Coughlin getting Worlds (even though D/C dropped it considering injury) because of national bronze but Mirai getting passed over was also a sign that she was expendable among the US ladies field :confused2:

For the fifty-thousandth time, the Worlds Criteria included not only ALL of the results of this season, but the results of LAST season too. Max trounced everyone for the men's spots when that was considered. Mirai had NOTHING to warrant her going to Worlds.
 

ice coverage

avatar credit: @miyan5605
Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 27, 2012
Reminder of the differing criteria, from a 2014 USFS media guide, is below.
2013 GPs and 2013 Nats were not among the USFS criteria for the 2014 Worlds team.

The athlete selection procedure for the 2014 Olympic Winter Games is as follows:
Team members will be selected by U.S. Figure Skating’s International Committee, taking into consideration the results of events in the following order of importance:
  • 2014 Prudential U.S. Figure Skating Championships
  • 2013 ISU Grand Prix of Figure Skating Final
  • 2013 ISU World Figure Skating Championships
  • 2013 ISU Grand Prix of Figure Skating events
  • 2013 Four Continents Championships
  • 2013 Prudential U.S. Figure Skating Championships
  • 2013 World Junior Figure Skating Championships
  • 2013 ISU Junior Grand Prix of Figure Skating Final
Skaters who do not compete at these events due to injury or illness, but who meet the other criteria, may also be considered for selection.

The athlete selection procedure for the 2014 World Championships is as follows:
The winner in each discipline (ladies, men’s, pairs and ice dance) at the 2014 Prudential U.S. Figure Skating Championships, Jan. 5-12, in Boston, will earn an automatic spot on the 2014 World Team. The remaining team members in each discipline will be selected by U.S. Figure Skating’s International Committee, taking into consideration the results of events in the following order of importance:
  • 2014 Prudential U.S. Figure Skating Championships
  • 2013 ISU Grand Prix of Figure Skating Final
  • 2013 ISU World Figure Skating Championships
  • 2013 ISU Four Continents Figure Skating Championships
  • 2013 ISU World Junior Figure Skating Championships
  • 2013 ISU Junior Grand Prix of Figure Skating Final
Skaters who do not compete at the 2014 U.S. Championships due to injury or illness, but who meet the other criteria, may also be considered for selection.
 

Jammers

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 4, 2010
Country
United-States
Mirai showed with her lackluster performance at 4CC she couldn't be counted on for Worlds and keeping the 3 spots. Of course Gracie and Polina had the necessary placements to keep the 3 spots anyways but still Mirai would have been lucky to finish in the top 10.
 

gold12345

Medalist
Joined
Dec 14, 2007
Mirai showed with her lackluster performance at 4CC she couldn't be counted on for Worlds and keeping the 3 spots. Of course Gracie and Polina had the necessary placements to keep the 3 spots anyways but still Mirai would have been lucky to finish in the top 10.

I think Mirai could have done fine at Worlds, but Ashley had the potential to do better. What Mirai did at 4CC was unimportant to me. She might have been able to do quite a bit better than 10th place had their been more than a few days in between that competition and Nationals, where she obviously had had a very emotional week. The Olympic year 4CC is brutal for the US skaters who just miss the Olympic team and then travel to Asia 5 days later. It must have been very difficult for Mirai to try to get herself in a good frame of mind for that. But regardless of how she could have skated at 4CC, Ashley had a better overall resume the past couple of seasons and could be considered the better skater at the moment, and I thought it made sense to send her to Worlds instead.
 

chuckm

Record Breaker
Joined
Aug 31, 2003
Country
United-States
Mirai is about to skate her SP at the Broadmoor competition. Ashley Cain just skated her SP and nailed it with a score of 66.41.

Oops, Mirai botched all three jumps. Double-footed and URd the opening combo, stumbled on the solo jump, and stepped out of the 2a. Sad to say, she was expressionless throughout the program, the same way she has been the last four years.

Scores:
Ashley Cain 66.41
Mariah Bell 57.70
Mirai Nagasu 53.19
 
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