Will Sochi's Olympic team skating return in 2018?

ice coverage · Sep 26, 2014

Will Sochi's Olympic team skating return in 2018?

Apparently the ISU has applied to the IOC for synchro skating to be a 2018 sport. Good news for synchro fans.

https://elinapaasonen.squarespace.com/blog/ (Sep 25) via @_David_Molina

If synchro is accepted, will it inevitably replace the team figure skating competition launched in Sochi ? :think:
"Team event" is listed on the PyeongChang page below. (But I suppose it could be interpreted as synchro, if synchro is accepted.)

http://www.pyeongchang2018.org/horizon/eng/page/sub03/sub03_03.asp

ETA, update as of Sep 29 from Hersh:

Cinquanta said that synchro (if accepted by the IOC for 2018) would not replace team figure skating in 2018.
http://www.chicagotribune.com/sport...roposed-for-2018-olympics-20140929-story.html (Sep 29)

I liked the team event, and hope it will return. (No offense to synchro.)

fallingsk8er · Sep 26, 2014

I hope the team event stays but I wish they would do different programs than they do in singles. That would make it more exciting.

drivingmissdaisy · Sep 26, 2014

I'm indifferent. It was fun to watch but resulted in Olympic medals for people who did not deserve them like Jeremy Abbott.

Meoima · Sep 26, 2014

Well... It's fun but I hope they will put it after the individual events.

fleeting · Sep 26, 2014

I quite like the team event. It was nice to see all the team spirit from countries that didn't have strong competitors in every discipline - like Team Germany, with Alex Gazsi and his cowbell, or Team France and their video to Pharrell's 'Happy.' I think the team event gave a lot of view as to each country as a whole, and that was a good thing.

However, I do agree that it should go after the individual event. We saw how it affected Yulia, with the public pressure and insanity that came after her team skate.

I do enjoy synchro, but I don't expect it to be a recognized discipline by Pyeongchang. Dance was a demonstrative event for two Olympics - Grenoble and Sapporo - before becoming official in Innsbruck.

louisa05 · Sep 26, 2014

drivingmissdaisy said:
I'm indifferent. It was fun to watch but resulted in Olympic medals for people who did not deserve them like Jeremy Abbott.

He won that medal under the rules of the event it was awarded for. It is no different than that athlete on the relay team that swims or runs a bad lap and his teammate has to make up the time (and if you've never seen that happen; you've never watched a relay event). No one screams that that athlete should be left off of the podium or doesn't deserve the medal. Skating fans need to adjust to the parameters of the event rather than trashing athletes.

I do agree that it would be better if it were after the individual events.

LRK · Sep 26, 2014

louisa05 said:
He won that medal under the rules of the event it was awarded for. It is no different than that athlete on the relay team that swims or runs a bad lap and his teammate has to make up the time (and if you've never seen that happen; you've never watched a relay event). No one screams that that athlete should be left off of the podium or doesn't deserve the medal. Skating fans need to adjust to the parameters of the event rather than trashing athletes.

I do agree that it would be better if it were after the individual events.

I've been wondering too about skating fans' reluctance to regard team event medals as "real" or "as valid" as individual ones - is it because it's such a new and unfamiliar thing in skating? and is it like that in other sports? Sports with either team (like gymnastics) or relay (swimming, running, skiing... ) events. Do people distinguish those medals from the ones won in individual events? I'm genuinely curious as I don't follow those sports, and therefore don't know.

Another vote for having the individual first - I always thought having team first was insanity, to be honest...

aromaticchicken · Sep 26, 2014

In the summer Olympics the team gymnastics event goes first, too, if I recall correctly. I think it's a TV decision: the audience is pumped up to watch the marquee event (ice skating or gymnastics), so they tune in for the team event. Then people get excited about skaters they like from that event and stay tuned to see how they do in the individual. (I mean, clearly it worked for Julia, and to some degree, meryl and charlie).

If broadcast in the opposite order people will be less likely to tune in for the team event, at least that's the reasoning.

For the athletes however, seems a little impractical.

fleeting · Sep 26, 2014

LRK said:
I've been wondering too about skating fans' reluctance to regard team event medals as "real" or "as valid" as individual ones - is it because it's such a new and unfamiliar thing in skating? and is it like that in other sports? Sports with either team (like gymnastics) or relay (swimming, running, skiing... ) events. Do people distinguish those medals from the ones won in individual events? I'm genuinely curious as I don't follow those sports, and therefore don't know.

Another vote for having the individual first - I always thought having team first was insanity, to be honest...

As a swimming fan, I can honestly say that there is no distinction from a relay medal to an individual one. Many Olympians count medals from relay events and value them equally, especially when a record was broken in the process. They lean on each other after mistakes - a US relay team at Worlds last year got disqualified for a false (early) start. They all took the responsibility, even though it was only one person's mistake that cost them a medal disqualification. They win together, they lose together.

In fact, some people are simply better at relay events than in their individual - I as a former swimmer (definitely non Olympic though) provided more help to my summer team on the medley relay than I did in my breaststroke. :yes:

Olympic example - Nine of Phelps' 22 Olympic medals were from relays, but it doesn't lessen his distinction of being the most decorated Olympian of all time.

unico · Sep 26, 2014

I enjoyed the team event and I think it was a really nice "preview" of the big names in the sport (most of them anyway) and the scoring system was easy enough for a casual viewer to understand even if they didn't exactly understand the program scores themselves. Scheduling could have been improved these Olympics, but I disagree that the event should be held after individual competition. Some skaters will live up to the hype and some won't, but athletes at this level need to be able to deal with the pressure/attention that their talent can bring. Just like pre-drinking, it generated a buzz before the main event.

mrrice · Sep 26, 2014

Do the gymnasts repeat the same routines from the team event in the individual event ? I feel the same about the effect the team event had on Julia. So much attention and pressure before she competed individually. If she'd switched performances, she might have won 2 gold medals as the Russian Team was strong enough to overcome her mistakes.

I also think it kind of made the individual event less exciting as I'd seen the performances before. Still, I loved being able to see some programs twice. I'd be interested to know what the skaters thought.

.

drivingmissdaisy · Sep 26, 2014

louisa05 said:
He won that medal under the rules of the event it was awarded for. It is no different than that athlete on the relay team that swims or runs a bad lap and his teammate has to make up the time (and if you've never seen that happen; you've never watched a relay event). No one screams that that athlete should be left off of the podium or doesn't deserve the medal. Skating fans need to adjust to the parameters of the event rather than trashing athletes.

It's not trashing an athlete to say he didn't deserve a medal. He didn't. Do you feel his performance in the team event was worthy of a medal?

There is a reason that there hasn't been a team event in skating until recently, and that is because it isn't really suited as a team event. It's a money grab by the IOC. It doesn't mean we can't enjoy it. I do. However, there is a legacy in skating that an athlete has to do something special to achieve an Olympic medal. Many world champions have not been able to medal at the games, and now you have skaters falling left and right being able to medal because only a handful of countries can field a decent team in all events.

drivingmissdaisy · Sep 26, 2014

aromaticchicken said:
In the summer Olympics the team gymnastics event goes first, too, if I recall correctly. I think it's a TV decision: the audience is pumped up to watch the marquee event (ice skating or gymnastics), so they tune in for the team event. Then people get excited about skaters they like from that event and stay tuned to see how they do in the individual. (I mean, clearly it worked for Julia, and to some degree, meryl and charlie).

One distinction is that the team event in gymnastics is used to qualify athletes for the individual events, so if you bomb the team qualifications you may end up not being able to participate in any of the individual events. Another is that the actual teams are comprised of athletes who can perform strongly in certain events; you may have an athlete who specializes in one event, such as vault, that can be placed on a team because the other members are weak on that event. In contrast, a skater would never be named to an Olympic team over a more deserving athlete simply on the strength of being a strong SP skater.

mrrice · Sep 26, 2014

That's an excellent point and well stated. I wonder if they'd consider following the Gymnastics strategy. Meaning one SP and one LP from each discipline per team not necessarily skated by the same performer. Could be interesting and certainly less taxing on the skaters.

CanadianSkaterGuy · Sep 26, 2014

Frankly, I do not want the team event to return. It's so obvious that only 3 or 4 countries have a shot of medals and all other countries are just there for show.

CanadianSkaterGuy · Sep 26, 2014

louisa05 said:
He won that medal under the rules of the event it was awarded for. It is no different than that athlete on the relay team that swims or runs a bad lap and his teammate has to make up the time (and if you've never seen that happen; you've never watched a relay event). No one screams that that athlete should be left off of the podium or doesn't deserve the medal. Skating fans need to adjust to the parameters of the event rather than trashing athletes.

Thank you. That was pretty harsh regarding Abbott dmd. Even if Abbott placed 4th behind Hanyu and Plushenko and Chan (which was probably all he could have hoped for), the US would have still had bronze. He would have needed 90 points to surpass Chan... only Chan/Hanyu surpassed 90 points in the men's individual SP, no US man.

starlight97 · Sep 26, 2014

I can understand why some people don't give the same "value" to medals won in Team skating (not talking about swimming or sth).

Take Ilinykh/Katsalapov, Russia's ice dancers as an example.
They won an Olympic Gold Medal in the team event. But they did not win "Gold" in their segment. They were third to D/W and V/M there, just like in the individuals.

They won a Gold medal anyway, because for example V/T placed 1. in the Pairs segment or Lipnitskaya placing 1. in ladies. Overall they had that strong of a team in their corner that they were "lifted" to Gold, even though they did not place first.
And D/W who did place first only got a bronze "because of" their team.

Medals in the individual events are valued more, because they reflect the true and clear abilities and delivery of the skater(s) him-, her- or themselves, which the team event doesn't.
Ilinykh herself said that she "Forgot about the Team Gold quickly for some reason, and rather really really wanted a medal in the individuals"

YesWay · Sep 26, 2014

drivingmissdaisy said:
It's not trashing an athlete to say he didn't deserve a medal. He didn't. Do you feel his performance in the team event was worthy of a medal?

I feel that this ^ entirely misses the point of the team competition.

It's all about which countries can put together a team that collectively, is stronger than the other countries' teams.

Singling out any one skater in a team, and saying they don't deserve a medal makes no sense.

If the teams wins, then all the members of the team by definition, deserve their medals...!

aromaticchicken · Sep 26, 2014

CanadianSkaterGuy said:
Frankly, I do not want the team event to return. It's so obvious that only 3 or 4 countries have a shot of medals and all other countries are just there for show.

But you could say that about a lot of events! Even in the individual figure skating disciplines that sometimes can be true.

Besides, a positive side effect of a team event is to encourage federations to build their weaker disciplines and to reward those pioneering athletes.

Also, I don't get some of you figure skating fans. Don't you see how good this is for the sport? More Olympic airtime = more sponsors and engagement. Seriously, you guys are the same as the people who are mad that lipinski and weir were chosen to be lead commentators because buzzfeed liked to make memes about their clothing. That's free publicity for this dying sport!!!!

MaxSwagg · Sep 26, 2014

I, too, think the Team Event should stay and indeed should be after the individual/pairs/dance competitions. I also think that the point structure should be revamped. Probably should be based on cumulative points, though, and with the small number of teams, just allow them all to skate in the free skate/dance too.

Will Sochi's Olympic team skating return in 2018?

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