2014 Croatia Cup JGP Short Dance | Golden Skate

2014 Croatia Cup JGP Short Dance

dorispulaski

Wicked Yankee Girl
Joined
Jul 26, 2003
Country
United-States
Live results will be here:

http://www.isuresults.com/results/jgpcro2014/SEG007.HTM


Start order now up:

Warm-Up Group 1
1 Sammi WREN / Alexey SHCHEPTOV GBR
2 Daria MOROZOVA / Mikhail ZHIRNOV RUS
3 Elliana POGREBINSKY / Alex BENOIT USA
4 Rachel PARSONS / Michael PARSONS USA
5 Jasmine TESSARI / Stefano COLAFATO ITA

Warm-Up Group 2
6 Matilda FRIEND / William BADAOUI AUS
7 Audrey CROTEAU-VILLENEUVE / Jeff HOUGH CAN
8 Valeria GAISTRUK / Alexei OLEJNIK UKR
9 Kimberly BERKOVICH / Ronald ZILBERBERG ISR
10 Hannah WHITLEY / Elliott GRAHAM CAN

Warm-Up Group 3
11 Nicole KUZMICH / Alexandr SINICYN CZE
12 Angelique ABACHKINA / Louis THAURON FRA
13 Emilia KALEHANAVA / Uladzislau PALKHOUSKI BLR
14 Carolina MOSCHENI / Adam LUKACS HUN
15 Anna YANOVSKAYA / Sergey MOZGOV RUS
 
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sisinka

Final Flight
Joined
Nov 25, 2006
Giving some small attention to Junior Grand Prix competitions, I took this event like something what can’t surprise me. Yanovskaya & Mozgov and Morozova & Zhirnov will easily won medals and will be add to Grand Prix Final.

So I was shocked when I saw scores and standings after Short Dance. Especially looking at those terribly low Element score. I couldn’t resist and take a look on what had happened to those two Russian couples who I take technically very strong (not only in their country). What terrible mistakes did they executed…

Well, I didn’t find any terrible mistake (just one – not holding the blade by Mikhail Zhirnov which should took one Level down and about one point from GOE). But Michael Parson also did a mistake in Twizzles section.

I was surprised with very good edges by Parsons who could execute as deep edges like two Russian couples.

But why judges gave almost the same Skating Skills for Morozova & Zhirnov, Parsons and Hungarian couple Carolina Moscheni & Adam Lukacs, that is a mystery for me. I described criteria for Skating Skills from in Nebelhorn Trophy thread, and I must say that Hungarian couple is two levels under level of skills of Russian couples and American couple. Overall Carolina & Adam were not able to show at least one deep edge during their dance and I was frankly surprised that they were able to get Level 3 and 2 in Samba and Level 2 in Step sequences.

Comparing Carolina and Adam’s cute, but very childish interpretation and looking at Component mark which was slightly higher than for Morozova & Zhirnov and Parsons…this can be explained (but not excused) by low number for first couples and high starting number for Hungarians. Not mentioning the fact that couple stayed behind the music in last part of the dance. Anyway Carolina’s facial expression and enthusiasm reminds me Nora Hoffmann a little bit. Overall nice couple, but nowhere near marks they got.

Rachael Parsons & Michael Parsons:
Once again they really have lovely edges, they were very smooth in the beginning of the program and it looked very well with music. But when music got fast and dynamic, the couple still stayed smooth, it would need more dynamic and energetic movements.

Daria Morozova & Mikhail Zhirnov:
The couple is always very expressive and in comparison with Parsons it was even more visible. The couple skates on 120 percent, they are never careful. And frankly Samba and Rumba are far to “safety“ dances. Thanks to it the couple kept both smooth and dynamic movements in all parts of the program. Personally I would prefer more Samba moves in choreography.

Anna Yanovskaya & Sergei Mozgov:
The best at the end…best Rumba moves in opening Rumba sequence, very expressive and dynamic as well. Some problems with keeping the rhythm in the beginning of second Samba Pattern and one looking for hands during program, but overall the best dance which deserved much higher marks.

While I liked couples I watched, I didn’t like at all what was happening behind the board….I mean Technical Panel…
 

sisinka

Final Flight
Joined
Nov 25, 2006
Pattern Dance – Silver Samba:

Technical panel watches correct edges, correct swing movement of the free leg, correct crosses, every step must be kept for some beats…
…to understand Pattern better – there are some abbrevations - RBO, LBI etc. - first letter means the leg (R – Right, L – Left), second letter means skating F – Forward, B – Backward, and third letter means edge I – Inside, O – Outside
…to get Level 4 the couple must execute all three Key Points cleanly, with only two well done Key Points – it is Level 3, with one well done Key Point – only Level 2, no well done Key Point – Level 1…
…we have two Patterns of Silver Samba…

Y&M: Level 1 and 1 – which means that even one Key Point was NOT counted…
M&Z: Level 1 and 1
P&P: Level 4 and 3 (in first Pattern all Key Points counted, in the second Pattern Key Point 2 and 3 counted)

Key Point 1
Lady Step 9 (LFO Sw3)
Lady Steps 16 to 18 (RBO, LBI-Qlb, RBI-SwR)
Man Steps 16 to 18 (LFO, RFI-Qlf, LFI-SwR)

1. Correct Edges (# 9 Lady, 16, 17, 18)
2. Sw3 (# 9 Lady): correct Turn
3. Sw3 (# 9 Lady): correct swing movement of the free leg
4. SwR (# 18): correct swing movement of the free leg


Yanovskaya & Mozgov:
…Key Point 1…first edge goes for lady – Step 9 - Left Forward Outside Edge…which is not visible, because Anna’s skates are hidden behind boards, but from her body position it looks like that edge must be done very well…here is the same step in Pattern 2…
2u6murn.jpg

…another step for both man and lady…Step 16 - lady is on Right Backward Outside Edge and man on Left Forward Outside Edge…
2r1z2pc.jpg

…. Step 17 - then they are doing slide chassés with the man slipping his left free leg turned out and forward while the lady matches by extending her right free leg backward
… then the partners skate a two-beat deep inside swing roll – Step 18 - lady on Right Backward Inside Edge and man on Left Forward Inside Edge with swing move of the free leg…
lctvo.jpg

…in Anna & Sergei’s case I don’t see any problem in first Pattern Key Point 1…

Morozova & Zhirnov:
…Key Point 1…Step 9…
34qwsv8.jpg

…Step 16…
2i8u7hx.jpg

…Step 18…
qno76o.jpg

…first Pattern and Key Point 1 looks OK

Parsons & Parsons:
….Key Point 1…Step 9…this edge was not properly done and probably the couple lost this Key Point because of this…
2wqbtow.jpg

Step 16…
8x3q4l.jpg

Step 18… (not synchro in swing move of free leg)…
i2ulv9.jpg


…In Key Point 1 which was skated on the opposite side than camera was, it looked like the couples didn’t have proper edge in Step 16…but Parsons got Yes for this Key Point 1, so I looked at their edge in Step 16 and compared it with other two couples…they all looked the same…
2h6zls8.jpg


Why both Russian couples didn’t get this Key Point 1 counted???

Key Point 2
Lady Steps 26a-26b (RBO,XF-LBI)
Man Step 26 (LFO3)
Lady & Man Steps 27 to 31 (RBO, CR-LBO, XF-RBIO (swing free leg forward-back-forward), XF-LBI, RBO-Qlf)

1. Correct Edges
2. LFO3 (# 26 Man): correct Turn
3. RBIO (swing free leg forward-back-forward) (# 29): correct swing movement of the free leg
4. Correct Change of Edge (# 29)
5. Correct Crossed Step In Front (# 26b Lady, 29 and 30)


Morozova & Zhirnov:
…Key Point 2…Step 26a - lady starts with Right Backward Outside Edge, while Step 26 - man goes to Left Forward Outside Edge…
90ysck.jpg

…Step 26b lady crosses in front to go to Left Backward Inside Edge…
2nspf93.jpg

…Step 27 both partners are on the Right Backward Outside Edge… and Step 28 Cross Roll to Left Backward Outside Edge…
2j31s8i.jpg

…Step 29 – cross in front Right Backward from Inside to Outside Edge with Swing movement of free leg from forward to back to forward…
n6uzjm.jpg

…Step 30 – cross in front to Left Backward Inside Edge, Step 31 – Right Backward Outside Edge with quick move of free left leg…
2nrcvar.jpg

…and everything in one picture…
ncib06.jpg


Yanovskaya & Mozgov:
…Key Point 2…during first Pattern edges were good, with one exception – during Step 26b – for lady Left Backward Inside Edge and Step 30 – Left Backward Inside Edge from both Anna & Sergei - both edges were not seen correctly…
…in second Pattern some moments camera didn‘t show blades…and once again Step 30 didn’t look properly in edge

Parsons & Parsons:
…Key Point 2…the couple got both Yes for this Key Point…
…which is surprising…
…because all three couples showed lovely edges and deep edges with exception of Step 26b - lady crosses in front to go to Left Backward Inside Edge and Step 30 - cross in front to Left Backward Inside Edge…but because American couple got counted both Key Point 2…I compared these problematic moments looking at all three couples
…in Step 26b…
30ubihf.jpg

…in Step 30…
2akh0et.jpg

…and all those questionable edges looks the same in comparison of those couples, and in all the rest steps Russian couples were great – why Rachel & Michael got both Key Point 2 counted and Y&M and M&Z didn’t???

Key Point 3
Lady & Man Steps 34 to 49 (LFI, RFO, LFI-Ch, RFI, LFO, RFI-Ch, LFI, RFO, LFI-Ch, RFI, RF-Lff, LF-Rff, RF-Lff, LF-Rff, RF-Lff Qlf at end, LFI, RFI)

1. Correct Edges (# 34, 37, 40, 43a, 48, 49)
2. Correct Slip Steps (# 43b to 47)
3. RF-Lff Qlf at end: left foot remains on the ice for ½ beat before being lifted off the ice for ½ beat


Parsons & Parsons:
…Key Point 3…both partners are doing the same steps
…Step 34 – Left Forward Inside Edge, Step 35 – Right Forward Outside Edge, Step 36 - Left Forward Inside Edge – chasse, Step 37 – Right Forward Inside Edge…
105d5zn.jpg

…Step 38 – 40 – another change of foot, edge and chasse…
14xco7r.jpg

…Step 41 – Right Forward Outside Edge, Step 42 – Left Forward Inside Edge - chasse, Step 43 – Right Forward Inside Edge……then five slide steps…
wu1f04.jpg

…Step 48 and 49 – first Left then Right Forward Inside Edge…
2monwhi.jpg


…once again Parsons got counted both Key Points 3 while Y&M and M&Z didn’t get even one…comparing all three couples…they showed deep edges…
…some more problematic places could be in steps before sliding - Step 41 – Right Forward Outside Edge and Step 43 – Right Forward Inside Edge
…comparing Pattern on the opposite side of the camera – Step 41 and 43…
2607v2a.jpg

…. comparing Pattern on the side of the camera – Step 41 and Step 43…
f51546.jpg

…comparing all three couples I see edges in all cases…so why Rachel & Michael got counted both Key Points 3 and Y&M and M&Z not???
 

sisinka

Final Flight
Joined
Nov 25, 2006
Twizzles:

For Level 3 the couple must execute:
Different entry edge and different direction of rotation for the two Twizzles
AND
At least 3 rotations in each of the two Twizzles
AND
At least 3 different Additional Features from 2 different Groups
OR
At least 2 different Additional Features (at least 1 of which being a Difficult Additional Feature) from 2 different Groups

For Level 4 the couple must execute:
Different entry edge and different direction of rotation of the two Twizzles
AND
At least 4 rotations in each of the two Twizzles
AND
At least 3 different Additional Features (at least 1 of which being a Difficult Additional Feature) from 3 different Groups


Parsons & Parsons: Level 3
…second set executed by Michael was not cleanly executed, so the level was reduced

Morozova & Zhirnov: Level 2
…Mikhail didn’t hold his free leg in first set, so they lost feature from level B
…so in my opinion they should get Level 3, because…
…the couple met 1 feature from Group A – elbow(s) at least at level with or higher than the level of the shoulders (hold for 4 turns in both set of twizzles)
…and 2 features from Group C - Set of Twizzles performed side by side in opposite direction (mirror) AND clear change of side: both partners cross pattern at least once during the rotations – this is difficult additional feature

Yanovskaya & Mozgov: Level 2
…the couple executed 4 turns in the first set of twizzles with one feature from Group A (elbow above level of shoulder) and one from Group B (holding the blade)..
…Feature from Group C was change of sides with crossing pattern, which is also a difficult additional feature, in Anna & Sergei’s case it is not so visible because their twizzles have curved trajectory, but I think they crossed their pattern
…in the second set of Twizzles, there was only the only Group A Feature - hand positions but it was the same Feature like in first set – elbow above the level of shoulder
…so overall the couple had three additional features from Group A, B, C and they did four rotations in each of their sets and kept arms and legs positions for four turns
…I would give Level 4, why did it came down to Level 2????
 

sisinka

Final Flight
Joined
Nov 25, 2006
Step sequences:

For Level 3 the couple needs:
Footwork includes at least 7 Difficult
Turns:
- one of which being a Double Twizzle;
- out of which any one Type cannot be taken into consideration more than 2
times);
- out of which 3 must be different Types of One Foot Section Turns included in a one foot section


Parsons & Parsons: Level 3
…very nice indeed, lovely edges

Yanovskaya & Mozgov:
…Anna & Sergei’s difficult turns were: Rocker, Rocker, Counter, Bracket, Double Twizzle, Mohawk, Double Twizzle, Chocktaw, Counter, Chocktaw…
…on the video turn number 3 and 4 – Counter and Bracket – edges are not visible because camera takes upper body only…
…I made a screenshots of edges in all other steps (without that Counter and Bracket where edges are not visible)…from every difficult turn there are two pictures – one with edge from first arc and second picture with edge from second arc…
ivvkgn.jpg

…the only visible problem I see in Anna’s first Chocktaw (on the picture - 8. chocktaw 2/2) when second part of the turn is not done on visible Right Backward Inside Edge…
…only from those screenshots I counted 7 turns cleanly done (plus I guess that some of those two turns not visible on the camera could be clean also)…
…so it looks like the couple executed Level 3 step sequence…but they got Level 2 only…there is a small possibility that some of those not camera visible turns were done badly and because those turns were done during One Foot Section with three different turns which is needed to get Level 3 – not doing those turns properly, it could be a reason why Technical specialist put the level down…

Morozova & Zhirnov: Level 2
…order of turns: Mohawk, Chocktaw, Counter, Chocktaw, Bracket, Rocker, Counter, Double Twizzle, Mohawk, Double Twizzle…
24gsgpe.jpg
and
2lmq4bb.jpg

…problematic edge looks to be in second part of first Chocktaw (on the picture - 4. chocktaw 2/2), all the rest has great edges or good edges…
…why the couple didn’t get Level 3, another question…

Overall I am surprised that especially in Silver Samba what was counted in case of Parsons and Hungarians was not counted in case of two Russian couples. And I also I didn’t find what was wrong in Steps Sequence and Twizzles.

Judges comparison of Component marks for Russians + Americans versus Hungarians was strange also, but thanks to starting number in one group at Free Dance I hope that Component marks will more reflect the real distance of dancers.
 

Snow63

Pray one day we'll open our eyes.
Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 26, 2014
Judges comparison of Component marks for Russians + Americans versus Hungarians was strange also, but thanks to starting number in one group at Free Dance I hope that Component marks will more reflect the real distance of dancers.

Thank you. Really.
I'm not so good in technical stuff like you, but I see the difference between top 4 pairs in Croatia.
The only explanation I see in this situation: judges wants Americans in JGPF. And it'll be very hard thing to do to drag them into Finals. M/Z should be 5th after FD OR Parsons should win and M/Z should be 4th. M/Z free dance is good, and Y/M's FD is just fantastic. So I don't see this happening.
 

Sackie

Medalist
Joined
Jan 4, 2007
I have always been amazed over the past few years how a lot of the USA teams suddenly have the highest levels across the board while others drop levels when up against a USA team that needs a top result. It seems in Dance levels are being used to assure certain teams end up where the judges want them to be.
 

Sackie

Medalist
Joined
Jan 4, 2007
Oh my soul M/Zs Tes score just took a nose dive! They went down by almost 10 points between their two events. Same with the Can team of C-V/H! Yet some teams seem to get a big jump here right when they need to!
Guess the judges miss-counted the score they needed to give the UKR team to have them move ahead of M/Z. But they did try to drop M/Z to 5th!
 

dorispulaski

Wicked Yankee Girl
Joined
Jul 26, 2003
Country
United-States
It looks to me like Y&M got hit for her doing a spin in the second set of twizzles both in sd and fd. AFAIR, you lose a level for that.
 

sisinka

Final Flight
Joined
Nov 25, 2006
It looks to me like Y&M got hit for her doing a spin in the second set of twizzles both in sd and fd. AFAIR, you lose a level for that.

In FD that was visible that in the second Set of Twizzles Anna was doing a piruette, so it was a mistake, but in SD althought she had small ice coverage, she was constantly moving forward in the second Set of Twizzles, so there was not a piruette.

Even with accepting piruette in FD Twizzles, this would explain the fact that Level 4 went to Level 3 in FD, but where Technical specialist found reason to put down both Twizzles in SD and FD to Level 2?
 

sisinka

Final Flight
Joined
Nov 25, 2006
It looks to me like Y&M got hit for her doing a spin in the second set of twizzles both in sd and fd. AFAIR, you lose a level for that.

Talking about Twizzles…
The couple from Ukraine…
...Valeria Gaistruk in FD kept her leg pose for 2 rotations only and then suddenly she lost ballance and her leg fell down…
1rry40.jpg

…so she was able to keep leg position (Feature from Group B) for two rotations only, so this Feature B could be counted only for Level 2 (you need three rotations in the position to keep Level 3 and four rotations to keep Level 4
…but the couple still had two Features from Group C – “mirror“ rotations and crossing the pattern, so it would be ebought for Level 3
…BUT it is visible that at the end of second Set of Twizzles Valeria made a piruette…

So overall real value of Gaistruk & Olejnik’s FD Twizzles were Level 3 and thanks to a piruette it should fall down to Level 2 and probably not high GOE thanks to lost balance by her.

In reality they got Level 4 and +0,60 GOE (only Judge number 8 noticed a mistake giving -1 while 7 other judges were giving +1 and +2)

HOW IS IT POSSIBLE THAT TECHNICAL SPECIALIST IGNORED MISTAKES IN GAITRUK & OLEJNIK's TWIZZLES GIVING THEM TWO LEVELS HIGHER VALUE THAN THE COUPLE DESERVED????

And how about judges, do they really believe that loss of balance deserves +1 and +2 GOE???

Oh, I forgot, loosing two points in FD’s Twizzles for Ukrainian couple would mean that Morozova & Zhirnov wouldn’t loose to them in FD and that was not acceptable both for Technical specialist and judges.

How many other “plus“ points Ukrainian couple got to have a chance to overcome Morozova & Zhirnov?
 
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