Why synchro should be added to the Olympics

You are ALL MISSING THE POINT.

The point is that synchro will NEVER get into the Olympics because you are talking about adding in HUNDREDS of extra athletes at a time when the Olympics is trying to save money. This means synchro can ONLY be included at the expense of another sport (and to wish so is incredibly selfish on skating's part) or by expanding the Olympics which is not fair on the organisers who may have bid not knowing that they would have another few HUNDRED athletes to accommodate.

Once again: HUNDREDS OF ATHLETES. We're not even talking about the extra few they were thinking of adding if the team event was going to have separate participants to the individual. Even under the ten team model we are talking AT LEAST 150 extra athletes.

I like synchro, I really do, but I cannot see it being added in anytime soon. As karne said above, it's about the expenses involved in providing so many accommodations to so many extra athletes - it's stretching the Olympic village, it's probably having to build another rink for the synchro teams to be able to practice on because more than one likely cannot share the ice as multiple pairs or dancers can. It's just not a viable option at this point.

And even if it was introduced, it would not instantly be a sport. It would be an exhibition event before it ever got the approval to be a recognized sport - dance was exhibition for two Olympic cycles until it became a sport.

fleeting said:

I like synchro, I really do

And even if it was introduced, it would not instantly be a sport. It would be an exhibition event before it ever got the approval to be a recognized sport - dance was exhibition for two Olympic cycles until it became a sport.

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Huh? It doesn't have to be an exhibition event before it made it to the Olympics nor would it instantly not be a sport. If the above challenges like logistics/overpopulation expenses, lack of depth of competition, lack of difficulty etc.. were not factors we might be seeing synchro skating in the Olympic programme. Several first time Olympic sports have made it into the programme without it having been a demonstration sport at previous Olympic cycles, and it is becoming more and more common today. Obviously, these sports didn't have 160+ athletes taking up space.

Also, the lack of depth of the competition is worse than I thought. If each country is allowed to send only one team (as it should be), there is way bigger drop offs than I feared. Since at World Championships places 5-10 are occupied by the No. 2teams of SWE/RUS/CAN/FIN/USA and they are not allowed to go, these places go to the other teams behind them who score like 30-50+ points behind them.

If it were up to me, I would pare down the teams to a maximum of 5 skaters per team. It would also help eliminate the campy "roller-derby on ice" look. Then add loads more difficulty. Yes, outcry would ensue, but this discipline needs a facelift.

Matt K said:

I am surprised but I find top teams are not always as in sync with each other as I expected.

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I had that same experience watching synchro, especially local (non-elite) teams. The conclusion that I drew was, this must be really hard.

Like when i see men skaters fall on a quad. I don't think, they're no good, why is this an Olympic sport? Instead I think, this quad thing must not be as easy as it looks. Not like holding hands in ice dance. That's obviously a difficult skill.

Précision said:

*whole post*

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Thanks for the expert analysis.

Mathman said:

Like when i see men skaters fall on a quad. I don't think, they're no good, why is this an Olympic sport? Instead I think, this quad thing must not be as easy as it looks. Not like holding hands in ice dance. That's obviously a difficult skill.

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Dance holds does not mean holding hands (like what synchro skaters do), and if you think that, then I am sorry, but I cannot help you. Maybe learning what ice dancing entails rather than cheering for home teams and trying to suppress dissent towards home teams would be a better option. But I cannot force you to do so.

It is okay. We are fans of different skating styles, disciplines, and whatnot. Whether fandom occurs through appreciation of one's talents and abilities, or homegrown bias, it is okay.

The Kilian hold is one of the more basic positions in senior ice dance. Torvill/Dean's Westminster Waltz shows how they navigate different variations of this hold very well: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CvCeYjFIBNk
And if you still cannot spot the kilian holds from that video, here is a still picture: http://photography.ice-dance.com/20...llian/schretlen-brogan-novcdb-killian.jpg.php

The best Argentine Tango, from Grishuk/Platov:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CXWBtIJ6YRQ
This dance uses different holds in Kilian, closed waltz hold, and outside hold (Oksana skates backward and Platov skates forward, all the while in a face-to-face hold. Yes, face-to-face hold, you will NEVER see that in synchro skating). Face-to-face means as the name suggests. You know, not holding hands side by side.

Bobrova/Soloviev SD: The section after their first lift is done almost entirely in closed holds, some close side by side positions but plenty of face to face holds, very difficult. Don't worry. I have time-stamped where it starts:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mw5drW-jVlU#t=2m56s

Delobel/Schoenfelder 2007 Tango: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zyTsqn6zNdU
Very intricate and interesting holds.

Delobel/Schoenfelder The Untouchables FD: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dDht8GEvojc

Denkova/Staviski 2006 FD: I have time-stamped the circular step: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_bVdzhG6rYs#t=1m16s
Other than the circular step, though, this dance is chock full of transitions and different holds I am still discovering.

Back then the circular steps had more intricate holds then they do now, because now the ISU is more levels/edge obsessed so teams today stick to the familiar stuff. Couples have more speed and polish today but not as varied or intricate footwork as before.

And the whole "I hate Linichuk so I refuse to see anything good in her teams" argument is old and stupid. There are lots of good things in her choreography as with Zazoui. These dance holds, for one.

I like some of Zhulin's stuff. Not all. But he created some good programs with interesting and intricate holds for his teams.

Précision said:

entire post

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Thank you. Very interesting.

Matt K said:

Dance holds does not mean holding hands…

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That is why we should not bash and belittle a sport until we learn something about it.

Mathman said:

That is why we should not bash and belittle a sport until we learn something about it.

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I did watch synchronized skating. That is how I came up with my conclusion, that the holds are not intricate unlike the variety of ice dance ones, namely, the face-to-face holds. Heck, even the Kilian. Do you see synchronized skaters doing kilian/waltz holds with each other?

Matt K said:

This dance uses different holds in Kilian, closed waltz hold, and outside hold (Oksana skates backward and Platov skates forward, all the while in a face-to-face hold. Yes, face-to-face hold, you will NEVER see that in synchro skating). Face-to-face means as the name suggests. You know, not holding hands side by side.

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Thank you for your thoughtful post about dance holds. About synchro, This season the synchroTechnical committee introduced a new element: Pair step sequence, so this season and in the future you might actually see synchro teams do step sequence in a dance hold. and not just one pair, but 8 pairs at the same time.

Précision said:

Thank you for your thoughtful post about dance holds. About synchro, This season the synchroTechnical committee introduced a new element: Pair step sequence, so this season and in the future you might actually see synchro teams do step sequence in a dance hold. and not just one pair, but 8 pairs at the same time.

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Thank you. Interesting.
But how would this work. :think: Each skater only has two hands and if each one is in a dance hold with another, that means 8 pairs dancing separately...in synch?

I think paring down the teams to no more than 5 a team is ideal. Yes, fury would ensue, but they could probably be able to add more difficulty.

But then, too, there is no need to judge one discipline by the at standards, traditions and requirements of another; or to ask that they mimic one another; or to argue for the exclusion of one discipline from the Olympics because one is an expert fan of another.

Matt K said:

Thank you. Interesting.
But how would this work. :think: Each skater only has two hands and if each one is in a dance hold with another, that means 8 pairs dancing separately...in synch?

I think paring down the teams to no more than 5 a team is ideal. Yes, fury would ensue, but they could probably be able to add more difficulty.

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For example like This. Team Russia 1 used pairs as transition last season, it wasn't an element back then, so there's going to be more turns and steps this season. But yes, 8 separate pairs in synch.

Précision said:

For example like This. Team Russia 1 used pairs as transition last season, it wasn't an element back then, so there's going to be more turns and steps this season. But yes, 8 separate pairs in synch.

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I kind of like that! Even if it is just for a brief moment. This Russian team must be the most elegant team in synchro.

Précision, could you tell me why there is usually one girl at the beginning who is making some strange move (like turning or waving etc)? Is she indicating that the team is ready?

LittleLotte29 said:

Précision, could you tell me why there is usually one girl at the beginning who is making some strange move (like turning or waving etc)? Is she indicating that the team is ready?

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You are correct! It's the synchro way of telling them they're ready to start

ou are correct! It's the synchro way of telling them they're ready to start

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Thank you so much