Let's get some Michelle "Data"
- Thread starter Bijoux
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This poll IMO does not once and for all find out what fans and non fans think. The choices are skewed towards non / anti fans.
5 out of the 10 choices ( 50%) are negative statements about Michelle. 2 of 10 are neutral, 2 are positive, and one is for over the top fans.
I am sure you have fun thinking up some the choices, but JMHO this poll is skewed.
5 out of the 10 choices ( 50%) are negative statements about Michelle. 2 of 10 are neutral, 2 are positive, and one is for over the top fans.
I am sure you have fun thinking up some the choices, but JMHO this poll is skewed.
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- Jul 27, 2003
Is there a need for some reason for the opinion on Michelle to be "settled'? Once the opinions are made known will MK fans then quietly disappear so that others will not have to hear about her? Will non fans finally be satisfied when they know the real truth behind MK fandom? OR is this another way of trying to coax negative comments about Michelle from posters?
Why do non fans want to spend time talking about someone they are not a fan of? Why would fans want to hear that?
Let me take a wild guess and say they would be (and this is just a guess)...INDIFFERENT
As a Kwan fan this is how I feel. I love her skating, I think that she is a wonderful role model, has always conducted herself as a lady and represented her country and her sport well. In her career she has raised the technical (which includes more than jumps BTW) and the artistic bar for lady skaters worldwide. Others such as Sasha, Sarah, Irina, Fumie, and Shizuka have all benefitted from her participation in the sport. She has provided them someone to aspire to and has proven over and over again to be a competitor of the highest caliber thus helping those who have come after her to be better skaters. After the Nancy/Tonya incident she returned dignity to U.S. ladies skating. When figure skating was at it's most popular she delivered quality and entertaining programs year after year giving the audience what they wanted to see, and assuring that figure skating made money so that more skaters would have the opportunities that she has had. When the last three ladies OGM skaters quit the amateur ranks she has hung in their providing the sport with a star who can fill arenas and guarantee an audience. She has made sure the US has had three places at Worlds and the Olympics for years. She personifies the American dream.
She has not ever embarrassed herself, her country or her sport. Having said all that it escapes me as to why there is such dislike for her. Is it jealousy? The other skaters have had the same opportunities Michelle has had. You could say that a lot of them have had an easier time financially. If others want her titles all they need to do is get their acts together enough to beat her at the competitions. If Michelle doesn't compete in the GP, that's a title someone else will have an easier time of winning. If Michelle competes at Nationals, Worlds, or the Olympics then let the others bring on their best efforts and take the title. Other skaters are not held back by what Michelle Kwan does or doesn't do. All of the polls in the world trashing Michelle are not going to make her less than she is or other skaters more than they are. If you are a fan of someone else and it bothers you so much that Michelle is successful don't blame Michelle and her fans. Maybe you picked the wrong person to be a fan of.
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- Joined
- Jun 21, 2003
All right! Now we're talkin'!!
Hey, do you guys know that the way the polls are set up on GS you can vote for more than one option? So, for instance, if you think Michelle is an adorable, please-stay, artistic angel, you can vote for #1 and #2 and #3, like I just did, LOL.
And if you think Michelle is a klutzy, boring, overrated, over-marked, stayed-too-long, unlikable phony, then you can vote for all the rest.
BTW if this poll turns out the same as all the other polls we've had on this subject, we can expect somewhere between 61 and 68% of the respondents to be Michelle fans, and 32 to 39% detractors.
How many times did I embarrass myself and my family between the ages of 13 and 23? (I even embarrassed my sport, chess: How could I have played such a stupid move? Aarrrgggggh!!!)
Love, hate or in between, no one can deny Michelle her place among the legends of ice skating, or her place in the hearts of her fans.
Mathman
Hey, do you guys know that the way the polls are set up on GS you can vote for more than one option? So, for instance, if you think Michelle is an adorable, please-stay, artistic angel, you can vote for #1 and #2 and #3, like I just did, LOL.
And if you think Michelle is a klutzy, boring, overrated, over-marked, stayed-too-long, unlikable phony, then you can vote for all the rest.
BTW if this poll turns out the same as all the other polls we've had on this subject, we can expect somewhere between 61 and 68% of the respondents to be Michelle fans, and 32 to 39% detractors.
When you think about it, this may be the most amazing statistic of all about Michelle's career. Michelle has lived in the glaring eye of public scrutiny for ten years. In all this time she has brought nothing but honor to herself, her family, her country and her sport. (The last time I said that one of my good friends on the board said, What, are you auditioning for Mulan II or something? LOL.)
How many times did I embarrass myself and my family between the ages of 13 and 23? (I even embarrassed my sport, chess: How could I have played such a stupid move? Aarrrgggggh!!!)
Love, hate or in between, no one can deny Michelle her place among the legends of ice skating, or her place in the hearts of her fans.
Mathman
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mathman
you get it the best. i don't know what former polls said but this is multiple choice. I tried my best to have a balance. I personally like general websites. I do not post at any mk gush forum or sasha gush/any skater gush.
I wanted to explain more, but did not see the space to do so. It's anonymous, so far little response to anonymous poll. Makes me think people are tired of subject. I personally made it multiple choice-if you can do better Piel, fine do another poll, I'll answer yours. I expect it would prove she is still liked by majority.
I get really tired of anyone bashing posters if they prefer Shiz., or Sasha or Irina, Jennny, Ota etc.
I also want to see if this has become MKForum Annex with all the young members. I don't recall so many attacks like "you kwan hater" on GS in the past. Actually I'm expecting the poll to be in her favor.
BTW there are 10 choice maximum to the polls, not 12 as the first respondent Gezando noted. Piel, I don't write really long posts and I enjoy your opinions but don't read really long line by line debate posts, no offense-not enough strenght to write answers. I can see you love her based on your pic. there are plenty of choices reflecting that.
It is not as skewed as you first 2 think as it is Multiple choice as Mathman said. Mathman, you could no doubt write this poll better for total fairness. I did "best I could" Piel.
you get it the best. i don't know what former polls said but this is multiple choice. I tried my best to have a balance. I personally like general websites. I do not post at any mk gush forum or sasha gush/any skater gush.
I wanted to explain more, but did not see the space to do so. It's anonymous, so far little response to anonymous poll. Makes me think people are tired of subject. I personally made it multiple choice-if you can do better Piel, fine do another poll, I'll answer yours. I expect it would prove she is still liked by majority.
I get really tired of anyone bashing posters if they prefer Shiz., or Sasha or Irina, Jennny, Ota etc.
I also want to see if this has become MKForum Annex with all the young members. I don't recall so many attacks like "you kwan hater" on GS in the past. Actually I'm expecting the poll to be in her favor.
BTW there are 10 choice maximum to the polls, not 12 as the first respondent Gezando noted. Piel, I don't write really long posts and I enjoy your opinions but don't read really long line by line debate posts, no offense-not enough strenght to write answers. I can see you love her based on your pic. there are plenty of choices reflecting that.
It is not as skewed as you first 2 think as it is Multiple choice as Mathman said. Mathman, you could no doubt write this poll better for total fairness. I did "best I could" Piel.
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- Jul 27, 2003
Bijoux,
My point is that IMO a lot of the intent of some threads lately has been to see how many opportunities can be provided for people who don't like Michelle to say so either directly or indirectly.
As a Kwan fan I don't want to read how much non fans dislike her. I do like to read opinions of her performances even if the opinions are different from my own. How many ways and times is it necessary for people to say....."I think she's not the best,she should retire from eligible and go pro, she's not all that "artistic", she's boring/ overrated, often overmarked, that they don't like her nor her skating."??? Her fans get it. We really do understand that by some cruel trick of nature not everyone has the ability to enjoy Michelle Kwan.
If one is not a fan or indifferent why do they care what others think of her, and why do they devote so much energy to her?
I totally understand about reading/responding to long posts. My doctor has me stuck on complete bedrest for a few days so I have more time to post than usual. BTW I do agree with your opinions on Jenny.
My point is that IMO a lot of the intent of some threads lately has been to see how many opportunities can be provided for people who don't like Michelle to say so either directly or indirectly.
As a Kwan fan I don't want to read how much non fans dislike her. I do like to read opinions of her performances even if the opinions are different from my own. How many ways and times is it necessary for people to say....."I think she's not the best,she should retire from eligible and go pro, she's not all that "artistic", she's boring/ overrated, often overmarked, that they don't like her nor her skating."??? Her fans get it. We really do understand that by some cruel trick of nature not everyone has the ability to enjoy Michelle Kwan.
If one is not a fan or indifferent why do they care what others think of her, and why do they devote so much energy to her?
I totally understand about reading/responding to long posts. My doctor has me stuck on complete bedrest for a few days so I have more time to post than usual. BTW I do agree with your opinions on Jenny.
I hope you are getting your rest Piel, and I must say that this thread is not too popular. I realize 119 views does not mean 119 people, but here's a chance for people to luuuurve her or hate her or mark several inbetweens. Don't you think that more people would have bothered to vote? It is precisely that she gets so many threads about her, and that all those generate fights, that I want to see how she is currently seen by skate fans.
I notice many frequent posters ignore the subject so THEY won't get bashed either way.
So, If anyone has the time... maybe you Piel??? Between rests, what did the other archived polls say. Having been called a 'Kwan hater' by a poster (which is absurd-what's to "hate"?) because I see others as having past her in tech and artistry, is most unfair. I wonder if so many GSers are very young now, of her generation or younger. Or has MKF bought up all the websites (oh noooooooo, pod people!
) No, you are not a pod person and please drink fluids, ok?... BTW
Are you old enough to have seen one of the few vintage sci-fi movies I grew up watching, called "Invasion of the Body snatchers"???
At any rate, I see voter apathy, please people, if you read this poll please vote. More important, vote Democratic in the election please!!!!!
While Kirk is not White House material, I hope she skates great and the judges give her a chance despite her being in the shadow of the two biggest US skaters, MK and SC.
I notice many frequent posters ignore the subject so THEY won't get bashed either way.
So, If anyone has the time... maybe you Piel??? Between rests, what did the other archived polls say. Having been called a 'Kwan hater' by a poster (which is absurd-what's to "hate"?) because I see others as having past her in tech and artistry, is most unfair. I wonder if so many GSers are very young now, of her generation or younger. Or has MKF bought up all the websites (oh noooooooo, pod people!
) No, you are not a pod person and please drink fluids, ok?... BTWAre you old enough to have seen one of the few vintage sci-fi movies I grew up watching, called "Invasion of the Body snatchers"???
At any rate, I see voter apathy, please people, if you read this poll please vote. More important, vote Democratic in the election please!!!!!
While Kirk is not White House material, I hope she skates great and the judges give her a chance despite her being in the shadow of the two biggest US skaters, MK and SC.
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- Jul 27, 2003
Bijoux,
LOL, I've seen them I will be fifty in June
. I rarely respond to the polls because I normally don't post outside of The Edge and Cafe. Though this week I think I have managed to post in several new(for me) areas of GS. As for ignoring the subject I think some Kwan fans have got burned so many times that they tend to ignore threads that encourage negativity toward her. And like I said if you're not a fan, why bother?
I do think that the average age of GS poster has dropped by a couple of decades, LOL.
I am trying to workon my newsletter formy GirlScouts but I will check out the archived polls, probably later in the weekend.
Now there is something we can totally agree on!!!
Check your PM's.
Piel
LOL, I've seen them I will be fifty in June
. I rarely respond to the polls because I normally don't post outside of The Edge and Cafe. Though this week I think I have managed to post in several new(for me) areas of GS. As for ignoring the subject I think some Kwan fans have got burned so many times that they tend to ignore threads that encourage negativity toward her. And like I said if you're not a fan, why bother?I do think that the average age of GS poster has dropped by a couple of decades, LOL.
I am trying to workon my newsletter formy GirlScouts but I will check out the archived polls, probably later in the weekend.
Now there is something we can totally agree on!!!
Check your PM's.
Piel
Actually the set up of this poll is more skewed than I first thought. When I first post, I did not know people can vote more than one choice.
I think the choices are skewed re: giving information of why people don't like Kwan, because 5 out of the 10 choices are for the anti fans. I am not arguing about fairness, but in terms of achieving your goal of once and for all find out what fans and non fans really think about Kwan. IMO in terms of content the choices are skewed towards the negative anti fans.
If posters can vote for more than one choice, then this poll is skewed towards the negative anti fans in terms of percentage also. I barely pass basic math, but even I know if one anti fan can vote 5 negative choices, and one fan can only truly endorse 2 positive choices, then the % is skewed towards anti fans. I do not consider choice #1 Michelle can do no wrong as a choice that most or all fans can endorse.
IMO, I don't think this poll can once and for all find out what fans and anti fans really think. In terms of being a poll for fun this is fine.
PS to add, if posters can vote for more than one choice, how can one conclude that 61% - 68% repondents are fans and 32% - 39% detractors?
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My hand is up, I've seen all versions of the "Body Snatchers" and am well over (cough)50(cough)........I think maybe because this is the "off-season" there are a lot of skating fans out there visiting and registering at various figure skating forums....anyhoo, I voted for three different choices on this thread.....so count me in.....42
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- Jun 21, 2003
Oh no, I made a terrible mistake! I voted for #1, #2 and #3. Obviously I meant to vote for #1, #2 and #5! Yet another design flaw in your poll, Bijoux. The choices should be arranged from best (she's God) to worst (she's the devil), with even gradations, so we could just vote for the top few or the bottom few, as the case may be, without actually reading the choices.
Go to the head of the class, Gezando. Your mathematical objections are right on, especially the last one (the effect of multiple answers making it easier for non-Kwans to stuff the ballot box than for pro-Kwans to do so).
You are also right that no one can reconstruct the actual percentage of pro or con voters. I thought about that when I made my first post, telling myself I should just shut up about the multiple answers thing, maybe no one will ever notice.
smiley that we used to have on the old board?)
But I promise I won't do that unless Michelle falls below 60 percent, LOL.
Mathman
Go to the head of the class, Gezando.
Your mathematical objections are right on, especially the last one (the effect of multiple answers making it easier for non-Kwans to stuff the ballot box than for pro-Kwans to do so). You are also right that no one can reconstruct the actual percentage of pro or con voters. I thought about that when I made my first post, telling myself I should just shut up about the multiple answers thing, maybe no one will ever notice.
But, heh, heh, one moderator fan has a secret way to vote twice. In fact, I can erase all of your votes and put up mine in their place, hee hee. (Where's that little
smiley that we used to have on the old board?)But I promise I won't do that unless Michelle falls below 60 percent, LOL.
Mathman
Mathman
I typed an answer the other day but lossed it. Oh well.
I don't see going pro as a negative option. Well, guess i'm thinking of the 90's where there was so much skating, good and bad. Yes, many a design flaw. Well, my name isn't Zogby or Gallup, lol. I wish she'd skate for SOI but I guess I've heard she is part owner of COI...true?
Also, to say she is a good skater but not the best is not negative alone. She's a great skater, but she's been outskated a lot. She still has twice as many people or twice as many responses I should say who adore her as dislike her. I didn't give a hate option, but I did give the adore/can do no wrong, and thems are pretty strong words.
I'm gonna make a poll just for you to get to the bottom of your feelings for Michelle. It's weird that you used God and the devil in your post and Gezando describes those who don't adore as Anti-fans. Gee, religious words, even. You should make the unbiased poll 
that is... if you can. She is certainly becoming a woman and a very pretty one at that. She is by far the luckiest skater, but then chance favors the well prepared skater. Who is your runner up ladies' skater I wonder?
I typed an answer the other day but lossed it. Oh well.
I don't see going pro as a negative option. Well, guess i'm thinking of the 90's where there was so much skating, good and bad. Yes, many a design flaw. Well, my name isn't Zogby or Gallup, lol. I wish she'd skate for SOI but I guess I've heard she is part owner of COI...true?
Also, to say she is a good skater but not the best is not negative alone. She's a great skater, but she's been outskated a lot. She still has twice as many people or twice as many responses I should say who adore her as dislike her. I didn't give a hate option, but I did give the adore/can do no wrong, and thems are pretty strong words.
I'm gonna make a poll just for you to get to the bottom of your feelings for Michelle. It's weird that you used God and the devil in your post and Gezando describes those who don't adore as Anti-fans. Gee, religious words, even. You should make the unbiased poll
that is... if you can. She is certainly becoming a woman and a very pretty one at that. She is by far the luckiest skater, but then chance favors the well prepared skater. Who is your runner up ladies' skater I wonder?
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Me either, it is a neutral statement. I mentioned there are 5 negative choices, 2 positive ones, one over the top postive, and that leaves 2 neutral.
That is the second neutral statement.
Define a lot. In terms of percentage and # of times of being placed on the podium, she is still better than the rest.
I don't know where you can get the twice as many people out of this poll. This poll is skewed towards negative in terms of percentage and content.
Yes, the option of she can do no wrong is not something that most fans can endorse. LOL, in fact a pixie anti fan who has stated her goal is to irk MK fans, she can pick the 5 negative choices and choice #1 (she can do no wrong)
I never said anyone who does not adore Mk as antifans, but I have seen plenty of anti fans or ex fans who jumped wagon (TM)described Michelle as phony, over rated, over marked, bored, dislike her etc. I talked about over the top fans too, and you don't seem to have a problem with that, why focus on "anti fans"?
Don't know what you mean by lucky. I guess she is lucky when she survived a death threat in Paris during the 1996 champion ship series. She survived and won worlds in 2001 with the boot problem, she raised above the streaker inciidence. Chance favors the well prepared, and MK's records speaks for itself.
I have stated that your poll is fun for you to think up the choices and fun for people to participate, but this poll does not accomplish the goal of once and for all find out how fans and non fans feel about Michelle. I don't think one can draw much conclusion from this poll.
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- Joined
- Jun 21, 2003
Well, actually, Bijoux, I am working right now on the official definitive unbaised and scientifically sound Michelle poll. Here's what I've got so far:
(a) Michelle makes my heart sing.
(b) Michelle makes my heart whistle.
(c) Michelle makes my heart play the kazoo.
My other favorite skater is Kristi. (I know she is your favorite, too, so we agree half the time )
No, I am pretty sure that Michelle is not a part owner of COI. I may have to take part of the blame for fueling that rumor on GS. What is true is that Michelle's agent Shep Goldberg shares office space with the COI publicity office in Novi, Michigan. Also, I believe it is true that Michelle has a long-term contract with COI to skate for them past the Torino Olympics. In any case, I think that Michelle and Tom Collins have a mutual admiration society going on, with each acknowledging the importance of the other in putting together a show that will draw in an audience year after year.
But Collins is in charge. I don't think he is selling stock or anything like that.
About fans who elevate their affection for their favorite skater almost to a religion, I know we can be annoying, but I can't see that it hurts anybody and it's so much fun! My greatest wish would be for everyone to get as much joy out of watching his or her favorite as I have had from Michelle's career.
Mathman
(a) Michelle makes my heart sing.
(b) Michelle makes my heart whistle.
(c) Michelle makes my heart play the kazoo.
My other favorite skater is Kristi. (I know she is your favorite, too, so we agree half the time
)No, I am pretty sure that Michelle is not a part owner of COI. I may have to take part of the blame for fueling that rumor on GS. What is true is that Michelle's agent Shep Goldberg shares office space with the COI publicity office in Novi, Michigan. Also, I believe it is true that Michelle has a long-term contract with COI to skate for them past the Torino Olympics. In any case, I think that Michelle and Tom Collins have a mutual admiration society going on, with each acknowledging the importance of the other in putting together a show that will draw in an audience year after year.
But Collins is in charge. I don't think he is selling stock or anything like that.
About fans who elevate their affection for their favorite skater almost to a religion, I know we can be annoying, but I can't see that it hurts anybody and it's so much fun! My greatest wish would be for everyone to get as much joy out of watching his or her favorite as I have had from Michelle's career.
Mathman
- Joined
- Jul 27, 2003
This is a subject that is subjective and will never be over "once and for all". As long as Michelle is skating she will be a topic of controversy one way or the other...like her or not.
I personally amd hoping to see her win gold. But that is just my subjective opinion.
I personally amd hoping to see her win gold. But that is just my subjective opinion.
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