2014 Skate America SD 10/24

It must be really great for Shpilband's teams to have the father of one of their training mates on the technical panel handing out levels at major events like Grand Prixs and World Championships!

Let's see. Highest technical score at Worlds last year?
This event which was an obvious head-to-head battle? Highest levels for the paso and PSS went to ? Aaaand, Lowest levels went to ?

Such an ethical sport.

Celine said:

It must be really great for Shpilband's teams to have the father of one of their training mates on the technical panel handing out levels at major events like Grand Prixs and World Championships!

Let's see. Highest technical score at Worlds last year?
This event which was an obvious head-to-head battle? Highest levels for the paso and PSS went to ? Aaaand, Lowest levels went to ?

Such an ethical sport.

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Except that Igor's teams have always been known for hitting levels. You may find the choreography often insipid or overly reliant on recycling, but his teams generally DO hit their levels.

WeakAnkles said:

Except that Igor's teams have always been known for hitting levels. You may find the choreography often insipid or overly reliant on recycling, but his teams generally DO hit their levels.

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And the Shibs tend to start slow on getting patterns. This was the case even when Igor was around.

I don't think it's a cause for concern at this point in the season.

+GOE
Chock and Bates 6.19
Shibutanis 5.39

The twizzles, which they usually get decent + GOE on, was pretty low today (only 0.27) but they received solid +GOE on everything else.

They gave away points today. I think if they got the paso levels the scores would have been much closer.

The shibutanislost alot of points for not hitting the levels on the paso doble or partial step pattern which is a shame.
Its hard to see the keypoint steps but thats how the game works.

Also, seeing all those empty seats made me sort of sad.

auser said:

Any one know who is speaking in the arena? It sort of sounds like an interview?

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statmam said:

Sounds like Rusty. He's sometimes at Nationals too. He does interviews and kids around to entertain the crowd during the down time between segments.

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It was Rusty interviewing Meryl & Charlie in the audience. Later he interviewed The Moms.

I guess I was being too obtuse.

There's an egregious conflict of interest going on with this technical panel. Sergei Ponomarenko is at it again. His second son, Anthony (who is obviously very talented) is continuing in "the family business" and is being coached by Shpilband. Ponomarenko needs Shpilband to be putting his best effort into supporting his son. What would anyone expect Ponomarenko to be doing in return? And that doesn't even include the fact that his wife has coached alongside Shpilband, so there is more than one financial interest tied to the situation.

Actually, ethical or decent people would acknowledge the obvious and recuse themselves from judging or being on technical panels where the conflict of interest is so obvious and wrong.

Guess it's just another reason why the sport has a cancerous rot, and the powers that be (and even fans) either accept it or don't even see it.

Loved everything about the Shibsibs...their costume, music, expressions...they definitely sold their program. C/B were great too, I love Madison's facial expressions, but for whatever reason, I'm more enamored w/ the Shibs. The Russians were also very impressive, especially with their first twizzle in a sit spin position !

this time after watch live, became a madison fan that dress is perfect for her:

lutzlover said:

Loved everything about the Shibsibs...their costume, music, expressions...they definitely sold their program. C/B were great too, I love Madison's facial expressions, but for whatever reason, I'm more enamored w/ the Shibs. The Russians were also very impressive, especially with their first twizzle in a sit spin position !

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Agree with everything you said! Being in the audience, I thought the Shibs and C/B were lightyears ahead of everyone else (though I loved the Russians first twizzles too). I wasn't shocked to see C/B ahead of the Shibs as their performance was more dynamic. I wasn't a huge fan or Madison and Evan last year but they drew me in much more today in person than they ever did on screen.

Just woke up and watched this event! I found C/B the best, both technically and artistically: while I love the Shibs, this SD just isn't for them, they're trying to be soft and lyrical with a powerful and passionate dance (or, at least, this is what I feel) :no: Maybe it's because they're siblings, too, and they can't interpret the man-woman drama, but I just can't see any Flamenco of Paso feeling in their program...
I'm sad for S/B, because those twizzles must be insanely hard to perform, and receiving only level 1 is really unsatisfactory! And Guignard/Fabbri: the 4th highest PCS, the lowest TES

Celine said:

I guess I was being too obtuse.

There's an egregious conflict of interest going on with this technical panel. Sergei Ponomarenko is at it again. His second son, Anthony (who is obviously very talented) is continuing in "the family business" and is being coached by Shpilband. Ponomarenko needs Shpilband to be putting his best effort into supporting his son. What would anyone expect Ponomarenko to be doing in return? And that doesn't even include the fact that his wife has coached alongside Shpilband, so there is more than one financial interest tied to the situation.

Actually, ethical or decent people would acknowledge the obvious and recuse themselves from judging or being on technical panels where the conflict of interest is so obvious and wrong.

Guess it's just another reason why the sport has a cancerous rot, and the powers that be (and even fans) either accept it or don't even see it.

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That's a very different accusation than your original one. And given that relationship, yes I agree it is a conflict of interest. But I would be careful of accusing people on this board of accepting or not even seeing it. The issue was raised repeatedly during the Women's competition at Sochi, because the Russian judge was married to the head of the Russian figure skating federation--a relationship I am sure you would also consider a conflict of interest. But funny, I don't remember you pointing that out at the time. Hmmm.

SHORT DANCE - VIDEOS & RESULT - updated

1. Madison CHOCK / Evan BATES (USA) - 68.96 Short Dance, 2nd Copy, 3rd Copy
2. Maia SHIBUTANI / Alex SHIBUTANI (USA) - 64.14 Short Dance, 2nd Copy, 3rd Copy
3. Alexandra STEPANOVA / Ivan BUKIN (RUS) - 56.37 Short Dance, 2nd Copy, 3rd Copy
4. Federica TESTA / Lukas CSOLLEY (SVK) - 55.63 Short Dance
5. Anastasia CANNUSCIO / Colin MCMANUS (USA) - 55.14 Short Dance
6. Nicole ORFORD / Thomas WILLIAMS (CAN) - 55.10 Short Dance, 2nd Copy
7. Charlene GUIGNARD / Marco FABBRI (ITA) - 54.18 Short Dance, 2nd Copy
8. Elisabeth PARADIS / Francois-Xavier OUELLETTE (CAN) - 52.11 Short Dance

I did not think there was to be any Paso SD that would be as un-Paso as the Shibs. But that was before I saw Chock/Bates. Chock/Bates has the most un-Paso SD. These two couples are also skaters, not dancers.

The Italians technically are not very good. I fear for their safety whenever they take to the ice. They remind of the Spanish couple but with less interesting choreography.

The Waltz rhythm next year would be much easier for all these couples, I think.

Celine said:

I guess I was being too obtuse.

There's an egregious conflict of interest going on with this technical panel. Sergei Ponomarenko is at it again. His second son, Anthony (who is obviously very talented) is continuing in "the family business" and is being coached by Shpilband. Ponomarenko needs Shpilband to be putting his best effort into supporting his son. What would anyone expect Ponomarenko to be doing in return? And that doesn't even include the fact that his wife has coached alongside Shpilband, so there is more than one financial interest tied to the situation.

Actually, ethical or decent people would acknowledge the obvious and recuse themselves from judging or being on technical panels where the conflict of interest is so obvious and wrong.

Guess it's just another reason why the sport has a cancerous rot, and the powers that be (and even fans) either accept it or don't even see it.

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This is along the lines of what I argue is wrong about this sport on this board.

Judging someone on the ice who can bring you, people you know, or your federation money/power is just unethical. Take it from me though, it really isn't worth getting into conflicts of interest re: judges, on this board. The majority of people I've conversed with on here just don't think it's a problem whatsoever.

I'm said about Guignard&Fabbri. I like their SD very much and I think they can be good technically. They have improved and did a very good job last season. Pity for today, they completely lost it.

Didn't see the Shibs. I saw C&B and I have to say that couple is all Madison. Evan is very dull to watch, IMO.

S&B twizzles are beautiful but difficult to get the level in that position. I think it was considered more like a spin.
I do prefer that though than the horrible and messy mirror twizzels.


p.s. About the judges, I would say deal with it and let's move on.
As long as the officials of various Fed are judging I see no point in complaining about the rest.

I'm not too familiar with the paso doble, but to be perfectly honest, this all left me rather cold. I don't know if it is the figures or the level of quality of skating or the music or whatever, but I think I somehow expected... more. May have to see more paso dobles to really 'get' this dance. The Shibutanis looked great, though!

After watching S/B twizzles several times here us what I think happened to their level. Fair warning this will be a long, technical post.

This is the requirement to get a level 4 in a twizzle:

Different entry edge and different direction of rotation of the two Twizzles
AND
At least 4 rotations in each of the two Twizzles
AND
At least 3 different Additional Features (at least 1 of which being a Difficult Additional Feature) from 3 different Groups

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The Additional Features I think they were going for were:
In the first twizzle
Group B (skating leg and free leg):sit position (at least 90 degrees between the thigh and shin of the skating leg); this is a Difficult Additional Feature
in the second one it was
Group A (upper body and hands): elbow(s) at least at level with or higher than the level of the shoulders (hand(s) could be above the head, at the same level as the head, or lower than the head);
and in the third one it was
Group C (pattern, entry, exit): both partners perform a third Twizzle of at least 3 rotations, performed correctly, started with different entry edge than the first two Twizzles, and preceded by a maximum of one step for Set of Sequential Twizzles or a maximum of three steps for Set of Synchronized Twizzles.

Lets see what went wrong. They had different entry edges, direction of rotation and enough rotations in each twizzle for level four, so the error must have been in the Additional Features. In the second twizzle Stephanovas left elbow was lower than her shoulder, that drops them to level three

OR
At least 2 different Additional Features (at least 1 of which being a Difficult Additional Feature) from 2 different Groups

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because they still have two Additional Features and one is a difficult one.

Now we get to the murkier part, either one of those Additional Features wasn't credited, but I don't see a reason for that since the sit position was clearly low enough and established within the first half rotation and the third twizzle had three rotation and a different edge unless the forward right outside edge and the backward right outside edge count as the same edge. Even if the third twizzle was not counted as an Additional Feature they still would have gotten a level two

OR
At least 1 Difficult Additional Feature

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for a Difficult Additional Feature.

So unless the sit position wasn't given credit for some reason, they must have had a level adjustment:

Adjustments to Levels:
1. If any part of any Twizzle becomes a Pirouette or checked Three Turns, its Level shall be reduced:

• by one Level if one or two of the four Twizzles become Pirouettes or checked Three Turns;
• by two Levels if three or four of the four Twizzles become Pirouettes or checked Three Turns.

2. If there is a full stop before the first Twizzle by one or both partners, the Level of the Set of Twizzles shall be reduced by one Level.
3. If there is a full stop before the second Twizzle, by one or both partners, the Level of the Set of Twizzles shall be reduced by one Level.
4. If there is more than one step between Twizzles in a Set of Sequential Twizzles or more than three steps in a Set of Synchronized Twizzles, the Level of the Set of Twizzles shall be reduced by 1 Level if the mistake is performed by one partner and by 2 Levels if the mistake is performed by both partners.

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The only one that could apply, in my opinion, is the Pirouettes. Ice coverage is something that is very hard to judge in a video because of the camera angle, in the slow motion replay it looks like they are almost staying in place, but in the angle during the program they seem to travel at least a little. This is rather subjective and the judges may have had an overhead view camera to make that call.

Thank you very much sneakypie.

I think the sit position was just fine, but the ice coverage might've been the problem.
However, I really do hope they keep working on that and keep it because it's gorgeous.

lutzlover said:

Loved everything about the Shibsibs...their costume, music, expressions...they definitely sold their program. C/B were great too, I love Madison's facial expressions, but for whatever reason, I'm more enamored w/ the Shibs. The Russians were also very impressive, especially with their first twizzle in a sit spin position !

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You took the words right out of my mouth. I was equally impressed with the young Russian team.

Right. The British Eurosport coverage of Skate America is due to start in 5 minutes time, with the Short Dance followed by the Men's Short.

British Eurosport 1 Livestream

(Eurosport 1 International is showing the 2nd frame of the final of the Bulgarian Open snooker from a couple of weeks ago).

Hope this helps

CaroLiza_fan