Axel help please forward flat foot landed

Hi there,

I am struggling with doing a single Axel. I am an adult skater. I have been working on Axel for a long time. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. At the moment, I keep having a forward flat footed landing. It looks like that I hit the ice with the flat going forward and then a quick turn into backward glide. That is a short of rotation I guess. The problem is that I don't really understand where the rotation is coming from. I heard some said the rotation is coming from left foot ( when I glide forward LFO into the take off ) and hook into it, some said the rotation is coming from pulling your right arm strongly and turn your head to the left overlooking the left shoulder. I am right handed. So I am confused... I try to take off going sideways.. but I can't really seem to feel the transfer of weight from Left to right. I am really frustrated right now..

Does the free foot really have to kick through with force to land an axel? and is it cheating to take off from the toe pick hook going backward? isn't Axel definition supposed to be a forward take off?

Thanks for any help in advance

hmmm i don't know too much about adult skating, only that most adults are not as able-bodied as kids, so this might not work for you
but i do recommend LOTS OF OFF ICE... axels (make sure you jump and kick your free side through and snap over your right side- ankles together- as soon as possible
you're going to need to kick, as that is the optimum lift and gets you to the right position the most efficiently
i've seen girls jump axels with no kick, but you need lots of speed going in for a nice, stable jump/landing...
the left/right weight issue can be solved if you jump (BEND YOUR KNEE) harder/higher off the left- more air=more time to get comfortable over your right side.
i spent over 3 years on my axel, but i had the capabilities of landing it when i was 8 or 9. the mechanics of the jump are fairly simple on ice if you get nice, clean, consistent axels off the ice.
axels need a 1 and 1/2 or 2 and 1/2 or 3 and 1/2 rotation IN THE AIR, forward take off, backwards landing, in order to be counted as a clean axel.

frankly, if you are hooking your axel, you're not going to land it. the hook is probably the main thing that's getting you. you want to jump UP and FORWARD. the hook means a few things: A) pre-rotation- never a good thing B) the force that gets you jumping is a spinning force that won't allow you to get any air or get over your right side and C) your body isn't facing slightly outside of your circle (the edge of your take off)... you want to have your arms ready to punch up and slightly forwards with your body facing forwards on that take off edge. once you kick your free leg forward, make sure you are still over your legs and your right side and you snap your left ankle to your right ankle and your arms come in to your torso.

since your landing is still cheated, i can't give you too many corrections there

OVERALL, lots of off-ice axels, changing your take-off position and direction, as well as kicking your right side up and jumping off your left side will probably help you, as long as you stay calm and think of waltz jump-back spins.
Remember, only YOU can make the jump happen.
Good luck!

I agree with Pooh-Beanie. I could never have gotten my axel on the ice without doing a lot of them on the floor (I recommend investing in a pair of boys' basketball shoes for off-ice jumping. Team Jordan are the best, IMO). On the floor, start on the right foot with your weight firmly over the right side and shoulders pulled a little to the right. Now look to the left and--keeping the right shoulder back, step out onto the left foot and jump up and just a little forward for the takeoff, leading with the shin of your landing foot. Jump all the way up, then turn the landing hip in and straighten the landing leg. Now pull in, bringing your hands in over the right side of your chest. UP!-HIP!-ARMS! is what I think when I take off and rotate, either on the floor or on the ice. Make sure you hop on the landing. Waltz-loop-loop on the ice is great training as well.

It's hard to tell what you're doing wrong without seeing a video, but you need to make sure you're keeping your right shoulder back as you step out onto the takeoff edge and that it stays back until the moment you leave the ice. If you are pre-rotating, you are probably releasing that right shoulder and hip and letting them come forward before takeoff, like a salchow takeoff. Try taking off on your axel from a side toe tap, since that will help you keep your landing side shoulder back. Then count 2 beats on the takeoff edge while keeping that entire side back, then take off, releasing the right side quickly and bringing it all the way through in one quick motion as you leave the ice. It should feel like that right side is pulled back like a slingshot, then released suddenly for takeoff. Also, make sure you aren't swinging your right arm/shoulder around to the left as you initiate the rotation in the air. The right shoulder stays back as you turn your hip to get backward in the air, just like when you go into a backspin.

I landed my first axel at age 38 so I know it's not easy, but it is definitely achievable with focus on correct technique!

Hi Vlaurend,

Thank so very much for the tips. I want to understand you right. The lifting up and turn the hip in is like a backspin action? So I should try to do the axel like going into a back spin after lifting off correct? I will need to try that. Up-Hip-Arms correct? The Hip meaning I need to turn my Right hip in? but not swing around? How about the hook on the left taking off foot? Do you hook or twist of the left foot to make the rotation happen?

Thanks again

Hi Pooh-beane,

Thanks so much for your tips. When you said to jump UP and Forward, Are you going straight forward? or are you going a little inside the circle ( 15 to 30 degree)? or are you going outside the circle? That is also what I am pretty confused about. I was told there must be hook on the left foot .. otherwise there isn't going to be any rotation. I was also told Axel is a sideway takeoff.. .like a Karate kick position.

Thanks again

you want as little hook into the circle in your kick/take-off as possible. if you look at your marks on the ice, you want to see a curve that ends abruptly, then starts again some distance forward of where the first curve ended.
)

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^ a bit like that. the bottom parenthesis is your LFO edge (take off), and the top parenthesis is your RBO edge (landing)
you should not hook inwards at all, if possible. your free foot should take you Up (and slightly forward given the momentum from the push ONTO the take off edge) and into your air position. maybe step a teeny tiny bit outside of your circle, but never kick outside your circle... you can play around with it a bit. personally, i've been kicking hard straight forward and getting pretty good results, but i'm just a teenager with strong thighs.

the hook thing is wrong. you should have a CURVE but not a HOOK. rotation comes from a good take off, and tight air position- also the effort into the actual jump up, and how fast you snap into your back spin position

NO NO NO NOT KARATE. THINK WALTZ JUMP!!!

My concern, reading this question, is that you do not have a coach but are in fact trying to coach yourself. Which would make it no surprise that you're having difficulty and "don't understand" where the rotation is coming from. Not only that, but it is VERY dangerous.

I can't do an axel...but I was working on it when I stopped skating years ago. As pooh-beanie said, pre-rotation is always a bad idea, yet it can be tempting and ruin our jumps. I remember when I was learning the flip. I would lean way to the right and have a weak takeoff. I was also not vaulting off the picking leg properly, and the only result of this was ugly jumps and falls. Pre-rotation, or hooking on the axel, just creates drag and displaces your axis, screwing up the jump and sounds like it could be why you have difficulty transferring weight to the right. I really didn't *get* the flip until I started practicing the lutz. Then I realized that pre-rotation habits were turning every lutz that I thought was successful into a flutz (and barely landed at that). The pre-rotation would cause under-rotation in the air, and my landings would be difficult (or painful). Once I started putting some faith (scary at first!) into somehow doing all the rotation in the air, and cleaned up the takeoff vaulting cleanly without pre-rotation, the jumps (both flip and lutz) got much higher, with clean patterns left on the ice and no problem rotating. Air time is good! It amazes me how some skaters manage to do jumps with only a couple inches of height in their jumps. There needs to be a good balance of strong take-off and in-air technique.

I personally think the biggest problem with adults learning jumps is the fear factor, and I think the best way to conquer that is to practice going into jumps as fast as you can and getting as much height as possible. Technique is very very important too but I find that practicing charging boldly into jumps like that clears up fears, then you can work on technique with your coach. I think trying to learn the axel without a coach is a pretty pointless (and dangerous as karne said) exercise. All the easier single jumps can be managed, though your form will probably be poor without constant feedback and correction from a coach, but it's insane to try to properly learn the axel or doubles on your own.

gohpet said:

Hi Vlaurend,

Thank so very much for the tips. I want to understand you right. The lifting up and turn the hip in is like a backspin action? So I should try to do the axel like going into a back spin after lifting off correct? I will need to try that. Up-Hip-Arms correct? The Hip meaning I need to turn my Right hip in? but not swing around? How about the hook on the left taking off foot? Do you hook or twist of the left foot to make the rotation happen?

Thanks again

Click to expand...

There is no hook on the left foot. You just push off onto a LFO edge (keeping the right shoulder and leg back) and ride that edge for a second, then jump up like a waltz jump. Unlike a waltz jump, you want to jump more UP above the ice than out across the ice. That's why you want to keep the free leg bent when you bring it through on takeoff. At the top of the jump, you turn your right hip in (assuming you land on your right foot) while keeping the right shoulder back, just like on a backspin. Straighten the right leg and lift the left thigh a little as you do this. Once you are backward over your landing leg, you should be in a loop jump or open backspin position (right shoulder back, arms rounded in front of you and a little to the right, left heel in front of right shin). Now you pull your arms and free leg in. Think of pulling your arms in over the right side of your chest so the right shoulder stays back. Keeping the shoulders counter-rotated a little to the right is crucial. A good way to practice that skill is waltz-loop-loop If you can't do a waltz-loop-loop on the ice with good control all the way through the second loop, it means you aren't keeping your right shoulder back and left hip closed, both of which are crucial on the axel.

As to where the rotation comes from, it comes from the curve of your takeoff edge (which naturally tightens at the last moment as you roll up onto the ball of the blade on takeoff; you should not try to curve it) and is helped by turning your hip in and pulling your arms and free leg in to make yourself smaller in the air. You need to rotate over the landing side, which is why it's important not to let your shoulders turn to the left at all. Twisting your shoulders to the left puts you over your left side. Twisting your shoulders to the right puts you over your right side.