Men's Prospects After Two Events | Page 2 | Golden Skate

Men's Prospects After Two Events

Jaana

Record Breaker
Joined
Jul 27, 2003
Country
Finland
I blame the rules. Hanyu should have had no business taking part into THIS GPF but he's there because the rules allowed his presence. Disgusting IMHO.

I think that as the reigning Olympic champion the judges are not too harsh on him, the reputation points, you know. Besides since the days of Urmanov we have not seen the reigning Oly champion competing in next season.
 

CanadianSkaterGuy

Record Breaker
Joined
Jan 25, 2013
Posters above you were defending PChiddy when he won WC 2012 and 2013. ;)

At least in 2013 Chan had a clean SP, and an almost clean SP in 2012. And two quads in both his 2012 and 2013 LPs. ;)

Its more of an issue that 4 bad programs (which comprises two of Hanyu's worst ever technical SPs, and his worst ever technical LP - no quads landed) is enough to qualify for the GPF.
 
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Meoima

Match Penalty
Joined
Feb 13, 2014
At least in 2013 Chan had a clean SP. And two quads in both his 2012 and 2013 LPs. ;)
Its more of an issue that 4 bad programs (which comprises two of Hanyu's worst ever technical SPs, and his worst ever technical LP) is enough to qualify for the GPF.
You do know that World Champion is much huger than Gps right. :laugh: and you do know that PChiddy won both gold, not just getting a silver and 4th place right.
 

CanadianSkaterGuy

Record Breaker
Joined
Jan 25, 2013
You do know that World Champion is much huger than Gps right. :laugh: and you do know that PChiddy won both gold, not just getting a silver and 4th place right.

To me, Hanyu getting 2nd at CoC with an SP with a tripled quad and botched combo plus a 5-fall LP is as bad and arguably worse judging than Chan winning 2013 Worlds with a clean SP and a FS with 2 falls. Even if Worlds is more prestigious, both are horrendous judging and fans should be outraged at both results.
 
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Meoima

Match Penalty
Joined
Feb 13, 2014
To me, Hanyu getting 2nd with a terrible SP and a 5-fall LP is as bad and arguably worse judging than Chan winning 2013 Worlds with a clean SP and a FS with 2 falls. Even if Worlds is more prestigious.
To me, a poster who has tried his every best words to defend PChiddy won at WC 2013 doesn't have much credibility to criticize other skaters of being overscored.
 

CanadianSkaterGuy

Record Breaker
Joined
Jan 25, 2013
To me, a poster who has tried his every best words to defend PChiddy won at WC 2013 doesn't have much credibility to criticize other skaters of being overscored.

I never said he deserved to win 2013 Worlds. In fact I've said many times that the judges got it wrong and Ten definitely should have won.
 

Sandpiper

Record Breaker
Joined
Apr 16, 2014
Brown, Ten, Abbott, Menshov, ect. frankly didn't make good cases for getting into GPF. Misha and Nam skated much more credibly, but Yuzuru wasn't the only overscored skater in front of them (Kovtun, Brown, Brezina...)
 

CanadianSkaterGuy

Record Breaker
Joined
Jan 25, 2013
Brown, Ten, Abbott, Menshov, ect. frankly didn't make good cases for getting into GPF. Misha and Nam skated much more credibly, but Yuzuru wasn't the only overscored skater in front of them (Kovtun, Brown, Brezina...)

True. To me, Nam should be in the final, having been the only skater to deliver two pretty much clean GP events, including freeskates with a quad and 3A-3T. I get that his overall skating compared to the other guys is lacking but it's unfortunate that sloppier skaters placed higher based on reputation. Certainly at Skate America he should have gotten silver and certainly placed higher than Hanyu at CoC.
 

Mrs. P

Uno, Dos, twizzle!
Record Breaker
Joined
Dec 27, 2009
I just chalk it up to an unpredictable men's field. Yuzuru wouldn't have qualified in other years.

Looking at his FS protocols again, he didn't really do that bad. Yes he totally screwed up on his quads, but then he went and did 6 clean triples in the second half, plus the 3F in the first half for a total of 7 clean triples (not counting the screwed 3T<<). Voronov did 6 triples (plus 1 quad), but only 3 were in the second half. Mura only had 4 ratified triples (and 1 ratified quad the other was <<). Jeremy did 7 triples, but only 3 were in the second half.

As for his COC SP, Han Yan had all -GOE on his three jumping passes, Dornbush had a huge error on his 4S and double the toe jump in his combo and Nguyen gave away points on his non-jump elements, Misha Ge got zero points for a spin and got a ur in his 3F-3T combo.

The only questionable program as far as judging goes is the FS at COC. That to me as the difference between him making the GPF or not. The PCS mark he received for that program was pretty ridiculous. He actually received lower PCS in his NHK program, which looked a lot better.

True. To me, Nam should be in the final, having been the only skater to deliver two pretty much clean GP events, including freeskates with a quad and 3A-3T. I get that his overall skating compared to the other guys is lacking but it's unfortunate that sloppier skaters placed higher based on reputation. Certainly at Skate America he should have gotten silver and certainly placed higher than Hanyu at CoC.

The other thing Nam lacks is a lot of flow and speed out of his jumps, which impacts his + GOE. Again it's great he can do the jumps, but he is getting almost no +GOE on them. He only got one +1.00 GOE on one element in his Skate America FS, everything else was really minimal. He also got a level 2 step sequence in the SP at Skate America.

I say props to him for having clean programs, but in the game of COP, it's also about doing elements with a high-level of execution. Even though Jason Brown fell on his 3A, he pretty much nailed everything else. He got +5.44 GOE in the other spins/jumps. Overall, Nam only got +2.37 GOE.
 
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CanadianSkaterGuy

Record Breaker
Joined
Jan 25, 2013
Well CoC was "safety net" PCS... As we've seen many skaters benefit from (Chan, Kostner, Germans) in an attempt by the judges to make up for a bad technical performance. Hence a worse performance gets better PCS, instead of a bad performance getting bad PCS (as what happens with all the non popular skaters).
 

peg

Medalist
Joined
Jan 17, 2014
Why not let Kovtun win the GPF since he won 2 GPs...now everybody happy? :biggrin:
Kovtun may have won both his events, but if you look at the combined total score, he's actually fifth. Fernandez and Machida both outscored him by 20+ points. Hanyu was the only GPF qualifier with a lower score than Kovtun. Even Voronov was higher.
 

Li'Kitsu

Record Breaker
Joined
Dec 29, 2011
My memories confused me then. :drama:

Don't worry - CSG might have realized what was wrong in 2013, but he's still very much thinking Chan deserved his 2012 gold, aka Chan with a fall and skating behind his music for a third of his program deserved to beat a "clean" Takahashi (who had a weird UR call in his LP, but everything looked perfect), especially in PCS. So if you want to talk about "credibility" regarding the discussion of PCS....

CanadianSkaterGuy said:
To me, Hanyu getting 2nd at CoC with an SP with a tripled quad and botched combo plus a 5-fall LP is as bad and arguably worse judging than Chan winning 2013 Worlds with a clean SP and a FS with 2 falls.

And you should have been around long enough to know that these facts alone don't work. Placing depends on how everyone skates, not just that one guy. Yes, only reading it like that, Hanyu had way more mistakes and should be scored way lower. But the fact is: Chan placed higher than a guy who was clean aside from one popped jump with that mistakes. Hanyu beat guys who made costly mistakes themselves. There's no way comparing these to instances so easily.
If you have a competition were everyone falls 10 times, the winner is going to be someone who fell 10 times. Meaning: this season was weird and unsatisfying for the men as a whole right now. I'm sorry for Jason, as I think he should be the 6th qualifier for the GPF, but it's not as if his performances were spot on. And I'm sorry for Misha, who had like the best performances of the GP (despite Machida at SA and Fernandez at CoR), but he didn't qualify due to the judges scoring him wrong, not directly because of Hanyus marks.
 
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