State of Russian Ladies in skating: 2014-15 Season

Sophie-Anna · Apr 9, 2015

Anna doesn't want to compete for another country. She told it in one interview. She was talking that her parents are from Ukraine and she could possibly compete for Ukraine. But she said it is good to compete in Russia because there are many strong skaters so it push her to work hard and she knows she need to try to be better and better all the time.

Barb · Apr 9, 2015

Sophie-Anna said:
Anna doesn't want to compete for another country. She told it in one interview. She was talking that her parents are from Ukraine and she could possibly compete for Ukraine. But she said it is good to compete in Russia because there are many strong skaters so it push her to work hard and she knows she need to try to be better and better all the time.

And if she decides to change to Ukraine, how many years she needs to compete internationally and olys?

kwanatic · Apr 12, 2015

chapis said:
And if she decides to change to Ukraine, how many years she needs to compete internationally and olys?

I believe she'd have to sit out for two years which means if she switched to skating for Ukraine this summer, she wouldn't be eligible to compete until the 2017-2018 season.

StitchMonkey · Apr 12, 2015

kwanatic said:
I believe she'd have to sit out for two years which means if she switched to skating for Ukraine this summer, she wouldn't be eligible to compete until the 2017-2018 season.

Which could get her to the Olympics at least.

Globetrotter · Apr 13, 2015

StitchMonkey said:
Which could get her to the Olympics at least.

Not a bad thing actually but I think being in competitions and honing the competitive fire is probably what make the Russian girls such a force as a group. Pogo is one of the more mature and naturally compelling ladies among the tsarinas. She really needs some polishing and work on posture and carriage and she can be the next Maria Butyrskaya sort. Just need to stay healthy and not become like the Butyrskaya headcase, like a deer caught in the headlights of the car. Unfortunately, that vulnerability and unpredictability was also what made Butyrskaya so compelling to watch and on those rare occasions when she was on, she was brilliant and was the only woman who could out present Michelle Kwan artistry wise. Just hope Pogo could have the chance to mature, refine and show us what she is capable of.

Sandpiper · Apr 13, 2015

StitchMonkey said:
Which could get her to the Olympics at least.

If Anna's priority is making the Olympics, maybe changing countries would work for her. But maybe her goal is to be the best skater she could be, irrespective of assignments. Then in Russia, even if she never becomes #1 or #2, she could continue to make the GPF, medal there, perhaps get assignments to Europeans and medal again, maybe come back to Worlds, ect.

Most people who switched countries ended up declining in skill as well. If Anna sits out for two years and comes back skating like 10th ranked European lady/20th ranked Worlds lady, would that be worth it? (No right or wrong answer--just something to consider)

Skater Boy · Apr 14, 2015

kwanatic said:
It might not be such a bad idea

The field of senior Russian women will be over-saturated next season: Tuktamysheva, Radionova, Lipnitskaya, Sotnikova, Medvedeva, Sakhanovich...then you've got the juniors: Proklova, Sotskova, Tsurskaya...and even more potential threats that haven't hit the scene yet: Nugamanova, Gubanova...

I don't know where Anna fits in. With Julia off her game and Adelina out, Anna was the best 3rd option this season. But if both of them come back next season (not to mention the newbie seniors Evgenia and Serafima), I don't think there will be much room left for Anna.

Anna is good enough to be a medal contender anywhere else but she fades into the background in Russia. It think she has a lot more to offer but she needs time to grow and develop. Unfortunately, in Russia's hyper-competitive field, she won't have time to find herself. If she hits a rough patch she'll fall in the standings and her only hope would be to do what Liza T did this year: claw her way up from the bottom of the pile.

Skating for another country might be a good bet for her.

And that doesn't include Leonova

silverlake22 · Apr 14, 2015

kwanatic said:
It might not be such a bad idea

The field of senior Russian women will be over-saturated next season: Tuktamysheva, Radionova, Lipnitskaya, Sotnikova, Medvedeva, Sakhanovich...then you've got the juniors: Proklova, Sotskova, Tsurskaya...and even more potential threats that haven't hit the scene yet: Nugamanova, Gubanova...

I don't know where Anna fits in. With Julia off her game and Adelina out, Anna was the best 3rd option this season. But if both of them come back next season (not to mention the newbie seniors Evgenia and Serafima), I don't think there will be much room left for Anna.

Anna is good enough to be a medal contender anywhere else but she fades into the background in Russia. It think she has a lot more to offer but she needs time to grow and develop. Unfortunately, in Russia's hyper-competitive field, she won't have time to find herself. If she hits a rough patch she'll fall in the standings and her only hope would be to do what Liza T did this year: claw her way up from the bottom of the pile.

Skating for another country might be a good bet for her.

The Russian field is always stacked but there's always a lot of shuffling going on too...injuries, puberty, discipline/nationality changes, retirements, etc. She may have to climb herself from the bottom of the pile a la Tuk but the composition of the Russian ladies field allows for this to be possible. There are so many ladies that are at such a high level that Russia does not need to hold up favorites when they underperform - so long as they send the skaters who are skating best at that time, they will all be contenders for medals at GPs, Euros, and usually even Worlds. Leonova beat Gracie at Nebelhorn, Liza and Anna were the B team at the start of the season and the Russian ladies still swept the Euros podium easily. Anna may have had a rough go of it at Worlds, but she did beat Miyahara, the silver medalist there, handily this season at Skate Canada. So really, everyone in Russia has a chance if they deliver. Adelina was really the only skater who ever got preferential treatment. After Julia's season last year, I would have thought she'd be a lock for Euros and Worlds no matter what, but she was marked fairly at Nationals and wound up in 9th place, not even being assigned 1st alternate for Euros or Worlds.

hippomoomin · Apr 14, 2015

Serafima and Sasha Proklova's new coaches are updated on the their wiki entries. One of the reasons I admire Wikipedia.

Meoima · Apr 14, 2015

silverlake22 said:
The Russian field is always stacked but there's always a lot of shuffling going on too...injuries, puberty, discipline/nationality changes, retirements, etc. She may have to climb herself from the bottom of the pile a la Tuk but the composition of the Russian ladies field allows for this to be possible. There are so many ladies that are at such a high level that Russia does not need to hold up favorites when they underperform - so long as they send the skaters who are skating best at that time, they will all be contenders for medals at GPs, Euros, and usually even Worlds. Leonova beat Gracie at Nebelhorn, Liza and Anna were the B team at the start of the season and the Russian ladies still swept the Euros podium easily. Anna may have had a rough go of it at Worlds, but she did beat Miyahara, the silver medalist there, handily this season at Skate Canada. So really, everyone in Russia has a chance if they deliver. Adelina was really the only skater who ever got preferential treatment. After Julia's season last year, I would have thought she'd be a lock for Euros and Worlds no matter what, but she was marked fairly at Nationals and wound up in 9th place, not even being assigned 1st alternate for Euros or Worlds.

Agree. As long as you try your best, do not give up, you still have the chance. it's not done yet.

Sandpiper · Apr 15, 2015

silverlake22 said:
The Russian field is always stacked but there's always a lot of shuffling going on too...injuries, puberty, discipline/nationality changes, retirements, etc. She may have to climb herself from the bottom of the pile a la Tuk but the composition of the Russian ladies field allows for this to be possible. There are so many ladies that are at such a high level that Russia does not need to hold up favorites when they underperform - so long as they send the skaters who are skating best at that time, they will all be contenders for medals at GPs, Euros, and usually even Worlds. Leonova beat Gracie at Nebelhorn, Liza and Anna were the B team at the start of the season and the Russian ladies still swept the Euros podium easily. Anna may have had a rough go of it at Worlds, but she did beat Miyahara, the silver medalist there, handily this season at Skate Canada. So really, everyone in Russia has a chance if they deliver. Adelina was really the only skater who ever got preferential treatment. After Julia's season last year, I would have thought she'd be a lock for Euros and Worlds no matter what, but she was marked fairly at Nationals and wound up in 9th place, not even being assigned 1st alternate for Euros or Worlds.

While Adelina does come off as the favoured skater, especially considering her powerful coaches... I'm struggling to remember when she actually got any favours? She was not included in the Team Event, despite being National champion (not saying she deserved to be included... but if she were so favoured, she would've been, no?). When she competed with Liza, Liza won when she skated better or at least comparably (e.g. Youth Olympics, 2013 Nationals). When Adelina made mistakes on the GP series or at Europeans, she generally lost to cleaner competitors. There was that dramafest before 2015 Europeans, but it was ultimately just talk, and neither Adelina nor Yulia were at Europeans or Worlds.

If she returns to the ice next season, she could possibly get some "favours." But that's more due to, well, being Olympic champion.

Is there something I'm forgetting, some story I haven't heard of?

samkrut@mail.ru · Apr 15, 2015

I guess, people refer to Russian pre Olymic nationals and Rostelecom.

Mony · Apr 15, 2015

[email protected] said:
I guess, people refer to Russian pre Olymic nationals and Rostelecom.

What happened at those nationals? I don't remember anything. She got second in the freeskate, in which she should have. I don't think her result prevented someone else from going to the Olympics. Rostelecom? all Russian skaters get higher marks there.

kwanatic · Apr 15, 2015

Sandpiper said:
While Adelina does come off as the favoured skater, especially considering her powerful coaches... I'm struggling to remember when she actually got any favours? She was not included in the Team Event, despite being National champion (not saying she deserved to be included... but if she were so favoured, she would've been, no?). When she competed with Liza, Liza won when she skated better or at least comparably (e.g. Youth Olympics, 2013 Nationals). When Adelina made mistakes on the GP series or at Europeans, she generally lost to cleaner competitors. There was that dramafest before 2015 Europeans, but it was ultimately just talk, and neither Adelina nor Yulia were at Europeans or Worlds.

If she returns to the ice next season, she could possibly get some "favours." But that's more due to, well, being Olympic champion.

Is there something I'm forgetting, some story I haven't heard of?

Agreed. I don't get the insistence that Adelina was ever shown preferential treatment/held up (other than Sochi). :shrug:

silverlake22 · Apr 15, 2015

Sandpiper said:
While Adelina does come off as the favoured skater, especially considering her powerful coaches... I'm struggling to remember when she actually got any favours? She was not included in the Team Event, despite being National champion (not saying she deserved to be included... but if she were so favoured, she would've been, no?). When she competed with Liza, Liza won when she skated better or at least comparably (e.g. Youth Olympics, 2013 Nationals). When Adelina made mistakes on the GP series or at Europeans, she generally lost to cleaner competitors. There was that dramafest before 2015 Europeans, but it was ultimately just talk, and neither Adelina nor Yulia were at Europeans or Worlds.

If she returns to the ice next season, she could possibly get some "favours." But that's more due to, well, being Olympic champion.

Is there something I'm forgetting, some story I haven't heard of?

I agree. I was more making the point that none of the Russian skaters really get favored or held up, and Adelina was the one skater who I said you could argue that this wasn't the case. But like you mentioned, internationally Adelina really didn't get any favors apart from very generous scoring at the Olympics (but that was true for all the Russian skaters so hardly an advantage). I guess some of Adelina's national titles were questionable but she was never outrightly gifted a National title that was clearly the result of favoritism, most of the time her results were due to withdrawals and poor performances by other skaters along with the skaters who did perform well being very young and immature. So I still think the system in Russia is pretty objective and fair. If you deliver, you get chances to compete. They even sent Gosviani to Euros when she didn't have an ISU score!

silverlake22 · Apr 15, 2015

Also, I think my feelings toward Anna switching representation have changed after seeing former Russian competitors Ovcharova and Shelepen regress considerably in their skating after switching representation and wind up retiring at the age of 19. And good technique or bad, these two girls didn't even have it that bad in terms of injuries and puberty. They both had a couple of minor injuries but nothing too serious and from a physical standpoint neither grew exceptionally tall and both managed to stay fairly slim post puberty.

So really Anna is maybe better off staying in Russia. It could be tough for her, but if Leonova can manage to stay relevant (not saying she's the star of the Russian ladies by any means, but she had some very good results this season) in Russia at the age of 24 without great spins or flexibility or even a 3lz-3t, I think Anna can do it too. Her worlds performances were unfortunate but I actually thought her spins looked much improved there. She's starting to get her head back in the biellman now and that donut spin she does is quite beautiful. Plus she has the hard content and her jumps are actually pretty big, especially when compared to those of her itty bitty competitors. With decent programs, her SS and TR can get her good PCS. She has the goods, I don't think it's too late for her yet. Also, even though she went through her major growthspurt a couple years ago, she has continued to grow and change physically over the past couple of seasons so that also takes adjusting too. She is quite striking on the ice with her physique. I think, if she wants it enough, she can stay in the mix.

moriel · Apr 15, 2015

silverlake22 said:
Also, I think my feelings toward Anna switching representation have changed after seeing former Russian competitors Ovcharova and Shelepen regress considerably in their skating after switching representation and wind up retiring at the age of 19. And good technique or bad, these two girls didn't even have it that bad in terms of injuries and puberty. They both had a couple of minor injuries but nothing too serious and from a physical standpoint neither grew exceptionally tall and both managed to stay fairly slim post puberty.

So really Anna is maybe better off staying in Russia. It could be tough for her, but if Leonova can manage to stay relevant (not saying she's the star of the Russian ladies by any means, but she had some very good results this season) in Russia at the age of 24 without great spins or flexibility or even a 3lz-3t, I think Anna can do it too. Her worlds performances were unfortunate but I actually thought her spins looked much improved there. She's starting to get her head back in the biellman now and that donut spin she does is quite beautiful. Plus she has the hard content and her jumps are actually pretty big, especially when compared to those of her itty bitty competitors. With decent programs, her SS and TR can get her good PCS. She has the goods, I don't think it's too late for her yet. Also, even though she went through her major growthspurt a couple years ago, she has continued to grow and change physically over the past couple of seasons so that also takes adjusting too. She is quite striking on the ice with her physique. I think, if she wants it enough, she can stay in the mix.

Yup, i think same...
She has the skills to stay in the mix, and if she learns to deal with pressure better... There will be always some room for her.
Even if it seems kinda full now, there will be injuries and puberty issues for other ladies, so always a chance if not for a gold, but some silver/bronze medals.

Sandpiper · Apr 15, 2015

[email protected] said:
I guess, people refer to Russian pre Olymic nationals and Rostelecom.

Adelina and Yulia made the same amount of mistakes at 2014 Nationals. It's "could've gone either way" at worst, not any kind of favour. (And the National title didn't prevent Yulia from winning Europeans and being selected for the Team Event.) As for CoR, all Russian skaters tend to get overscored at CoR. Just like American skaters are at SA, Canadian skaters at SC, ect. I still don't see what those "people" are referring to.

silverlake22 · Apr 15, 2015

Sandpiper said:
Adelina and Yulia made the same amount of mistakes at 2014 Nationals. It's "could've gone either way" at worst, not any kind of favour. (And the National title didn't prevent Yulia from winning Europeans and being selected for the Team Event.) As for CoR, all Russian skaters tend to get overscored at CoR. Just like American skaters are at SA, Canadian skaters at SC, ect. I still don't see what those "people" are referring to.

The more I think about it, the more I think that Adelina hasn't really been held up. COR and Olympics scores were inflated for all the Russian skaters, not just Adelina, so really she can't be singled as receiving preferential treatment just because of that - all her Russian teammates experienced the same effect. I guess Adelina being inconsistent sometimes made me think that the Russian Federation overestimated her value, but what I realized is that usually she skated well at domestic events, and internationally, whenever she didn't deliver, she wasn't given the win or huge scores. In fact, in her senior career, I think the Olympics was the only event she ever won, or at least major event. She never finished higher than 2nd at a GP or at Euros (and she skated pretty well both times she went to Euros), and when she bombed she did receive some pretty low scores, like when she lost Nebelhorn to Osmond and CoC to Pogo and placed last in the FS at 5th overall at the GPF. Her situation is more of Jeremy Abbott type of one where she'd usually put it all together at Nationals but have trouble doing it her international events (except the Olympics).

Tutto · Apr 20, 2015

Anna Tsareva has confirmed that her student Anna Pogorilaya's move to CSKA (Buianova) can not be ruled out:

http://www.sports.ru/others/figure-skating/1028986274.html

At the same time she refused to comment any further saying that it is too early to talk about the move with certainty

State of Russian Ladies in skating: 2014-15 Season

Sophie-Anna

Barb

kwanatic

Check out my YT channel, Bare Ice!

StitchMonkey

Globetrotter

Sandpiper

Skater Boy

silverlake22

hippomoomin

Meoima

Match Penalty

Sandpiper

[email protected]

Medalist

Mony

kwanatic

Check out my YT channel, Bare Ice!

silverlake22

silverlake22

moriel

Sandpiper

silverlake22

Tutto

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