Figure Skating governed like tennis: would that work? | Page 4 | Golden Skate

Figure Skating governed like tennis: would that work?

dress

On the Ice
Joined
Feb 9, 2014

The guy in a red clothe is not really dressed to compete in an equestrian competition. It is more of a traditional costume.

Here are the medalists in show jumping: http://www.horsejunkiesunited.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/08/1-medals-w1-all-teams.jpg
dressage: http://www.horse-today.de/wp-content/uploads/2012/08/duJardinC_Olym12ss_4563-601x399.jpg

I compete in dressage. I like the classic outfit. It's very classy. The only issue is that wool coats are way too hot during the summer. For training, I always wear sportswear likee the one I use for running etc....
 

el henry

Go have some cake. And come back with jollity.
Record Breaker
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Mar 3, 2014
Country
United-States
gkelly said:
As for the larger question of this thread, I'll put together some thoughts to share later when I have more time.

What is the primary question/goal?

How to make skating as a spectator sport more popular and lucrative for promoters in the US specifically, or in as many countries as possible worldwide?

How to make/keep skating popular as a participant sport, in the US specifically or in as many countries as possible?

How to get the strongest possible fields at the most important events, for the sake of both fans and the strong skaters from strong countries themselves?

Each of these goals might require different approaches to maximize effectiveness, and some strategies that would work for one goal would work against another. So it's important to decide what we're trying to accomplish and what we're willing to give up.

I can think of several other outcomes that might need to be considered as well.

And of course practical questions about funding, or how to get from the current situation to a better one, should also be taken into account if we seriously believe that there's a necessity for such changes.

Although if we just want to fantasize "Wouldn't it be great if..." just for fun, that's cool too.

I agree that we need to decide the primary goal. I also agree that the goals require different approaches and would have different results.

I quibble only with the bolded wording (and I realize you will be coming back to this), in that I would say "long-standing" or "not casual" or some other word that I am not able to come up with.The "inside baseball" FS fan believes Pogo is better and believes that to have the best field, she must compete. As I have stated many times, I believe the casual fan could care less. Are we "inside baseball" or not?

Discuss.:biggrin:
 
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R.D.

Record Breaker
Joined
Jul 26, 2003
On the topic at hand, here's my thought:

I really don't think it matters how you dress it up. A spade is a spade always.

Spade, in this case, being ice skating. People will watch if they're interested and if they are aware that it's on (that's where the marketing part comes in). But even with the most brilliant marketing campaign, if the actual product is no good (or unenjoyable to the masses), it won't be consumed. So you start from the ground up. You start from within.

I don't think it's so much the SYSTEM that needs to change, it's the PEOPLE. Once you do that (get fresh blood in with fresh ideas, etc.), the rest will follow.
 
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gkelly

Record Breaker
Joined
Jul 26, 2003
Could the ISU restructure itself to allow for a professional, international, individual-skater-based competition structure?
Would figure skating need to secede from that speedskater-founded organization and build a completely new structure from scratch?

Or is the governance structure less important and creating appealing marketable product the primary goal?

When we talk about "marketable," are we thinking in terms of the organizers/sponsors making a profit? Creating an environment in which the most marketable top skaters can become rich? One in which hundreds of international-level skaters can earn enough through competition and associated earnings to fund their training and make an acceptable living with skating as their profession? Spreading out corporate/media/ticket sales income that comes into the sport enough to support international level skating from at least the JGP and current Challenger series level on up as accessible to all skaters around the world who meet the minimum skill level to be able to enter at little or no cost to themselves?

Suppose there's a situation in which the following conditions all exist, regardless of which changes preceded which:

*An international group of former and current skaters and officials with a shared new century vision for the sport and expertise among its members in marketing/branding, fundraising, event planning, sports management in general, and rulemaking/officiating for figure skating in particular

*One or more major multinational corporations interested in significant sponsorship of international skating as a professional sport, rebranded to support their own branding goals

*Enough agreement with the new vision by a majority of federation leaders that the ISU would either buy into the new approach or step aside and let another organization take over the governance of international figure skating

OK, let's say the means and the expertise are there. Let's imagine ourselves part of that expertise. What would we recommend? What's our vision?
 

MalAssada

Medalist
Joined
Jun 28, 2014
I am not familiar with tennis, but who would pay the athlete's fees? I could see it happening with skaters representing clubs instead of countries. Sambo-70, ya know. Maybe not even actual clubs, but like Formula 1. Skaters come and go as they are offered opportunities. I guess they would have to compete for their countries in Olympics, but GP, Euros and maybe Worlda could happen under this system.

Probably dreaming too high, but almost drowning twice in a row do that to people...
 
Joined
Jun 21, 2003
I quibble only with the bolded wording (and I realize you will be coming back to this), in that I would say "long-standing" or "not casual" or some other word that I am not able to come up with. The "inside baseball" FS fan believes Pogo is better and believes that to have the best field, she must compete. As I have stated many times, I believe the casual fan could care less. Are we "inside baseball" or not?

Discuss.:biggrin:

The argument might go like this. Although the general public has never heard of Anna Pogorilaya, we inside baseball folks know that she is the most likely to give a great performance. The unwashed masses do like great performances, so...
 
Joined
Jun 21, 2003
Oh good god. Seriously??? :hopelessness:

You see, it's snobby attitudes like this (sorry) held by the TPTB and prominent members of the skating community that will keep skating forever in the dark ages. Very closed-minded and unwilling to try something new all in fear of being "marked down" or "blacklisted" or whatever. come on man, GMAB :rolleye::bang:

Still…popular music has contracted. If you turn on the radio at random (do they still play music on the radio?), it is dominated by the same type of song over and over (and yes, if you listen to most lyrics they are not pleasant).

In the 1960s -- ahem! -- there was a smorgasbord of musical choice at your fingertips. Rock and roll, rhythm and blues, classical, folk, old standards, county, Motown, Philadelphia sound, swing, pop, big band, dixieland, instrumentals, show tunes, jazz, bebop, easy listening, fushion, themes from TV shows, the British invasion, alternative, gospel.
 
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Joined
Jun 21, 2003
The guy in a red clothe is not really dressed to compete in an equestrian competition. It is more of a traditional costume.

Here are the medalists in show jumping: http://www.horsejunkiesunited.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/08/1-medals-w1-all-teams.jpg
dressage: http://www.horse-today.de/wp-content/uploads/2012/08/duJardinC_Olym12ss_4563-601x399.jpg

I compete in dressage. I like the classic outfit. It's very classy. The only issue is that wool coats are way too hot during the summer. For training, I always wear sportswear likee the one I use for running etc....

Very cool. Thanks for the post. :rock:
 

R.D.

Record Breaker
Joined
Jul 26, 2003
Still…popular music has contracted. If you turn on the radio at random (do they still play music on the radio?), it is dominated by the same type of song over and over (and yes, if you listen to most lyrics they are not pleasant).

In the 1960s -- ahem! -- there was a smorgasbord of musical choice at your fingertips. Rock and roll, rhythm and blues, classical, folk, old standards, county, Motown, Philadelphia sound, swing, pop, big band, dixieland, instrumentals, show tunes, jazz, bebop, easy listening, fushion, themes from TV shows, the British invasion, alternative, gospel.

You know, you can hear all that stuff now as well. You just may have to look a little harder/search a little longer given the expanded media choices of today, that's all.

It's all relative. It's the same "things were better back in my day" that is heard all the time.

I know because I find myself starting to do that too (gasp! unbelievable). But then I stop and think, were things really THAT MUCH better then? I think nostalgia drives most of that feeling.

Today's kids and teenagers will do the same thing in 20-30 yrs, in 2040 they'll be saying things were so much better in 2014 and there was more variety back then.

_________

Having said all that, I would like to say I find myself agreeing that I don't enjoy the radio as much as I once did. In fact, I barely listen to it at all. :slink: But I don't think it's because things are necessarily worse...just different. It's a different era of music now, and music will keep evolving as the years and decades go by. Whether we choose to keep up with the changes or not depends on our individual tastes.
 
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Manitou

Medalist
Joined
Jan 17, 2014
And besides, I'd rather us not go to modern music. Figure skating doesn't need 15 year olds out on the ice skating to songs about drugs, alcohol, rape, sex, and disrespect to women, which seems to be all modern music is about.
....

I missed that! :laugh: Feels like listening to some angry and bitter 80+ year old Scrooge! :laugh:
 
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msteach3

Medalist
Joined
Mar 28, 2013
Country
United-States
And besides, I'd rather us not go to modern music. Figure skating doesn't need 15 year olds out on the ice skating to songs about drugs, alcohol, rape, sex, and disrespect to women, which seems to be all modern music is about.

Oh yes, let's just make the boys who might happen to like the costumes (sexuality being irrelevant) feel bad about themselves, just to add onto the bullying, by telling them that their costumes are too gay! Great idea! Let's not think about educating the idiots that think that way, let's not think about just saying "hey, wear what you want to wear"....

Ok karne...you want to overreact to get attention. Fine, but the rest of us want a constructive conversation.

As for the music choices...maybe "contemporary music" is a better description which can mean many different genres other than classical. I'm pretty sure no one wants vulgar lyrics in skating programs. Come on... :rolleye:
 

el henry

Go have some cake. And come back with jollity.
Record Breaker
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I suspect Adrian Schultheiss of Sweden would have used such lyrics, considering one of the songs he used in the 2009-10 season.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adrian_Schultheiss#Programs

Does Misha Ge's exhibition to Lil Jon contain "forbidden" language? I know I sound like one of those fuddy duddies who talks about walking to and from school barefoot in the snow uphill (both ways), but I truly can't understand the lyrics. Probably just as well.

The argument might go like this. Although the general public has never heard of Anna Pogorilaya, we inside baseball folks know that she is the most likely to give a great performance. The unwashed masses do like great performances, so...

This argument does make sense to me. So how do we get the great unwashed to watch Anna? I realize it's a great circle: who is the "it" performer who will draw them in? When they are drawn in, will they want to learn more? Figure Skating is for better or worse set up as a national enterprise. Can we truly get the general public in the US to watch the fourth ranked Russian woman?

I don't have answers, I just like questions.:laugh:
 

dorispulaski

Wicked Yankee Girl
Joined
Jul 26, 2003
Country
United-States
Show them Anna's " Rise Like a Phoenix" ex, and they'll watch if only to figure out how she did that quick change! Wow wow wow!
 

shiroKJ

Back to the forest you go.
Record Breaker
Joined
Jun 9, 2014
Sorry for bringing back an old thread but I came across a video and thought it was interesting.

-After the Nancy/Tonya incident, FS coverage went up 90%. :drama:
-Right after that, Michelle (& Tara) took over women's FS and dominated which kept the momentum going for FS's popularity in the US.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=innxh5NjOvo

In conclusion? The US loves drama, rivalries and winners. Things that are seemingly absent from US figure skating right now.
 

Manitou

Medalist
Joined
Jan 17, 2014
In conclusion? The US loves drama, rivalries and winners. Things that are seemingly absent from US figure skating right now.

We have a kind of mild rivalry between Gracie and Ashley. Not the same level, though...
 

Ladskater

~ Figure Skating Is My Passion ~
Record Breaker
Joined
Jul 28, 2003
Not sure, what the point of this is, but Figure Skating in Canada could never be "killed Off" we would just keep Canadian Nationals going.
 

shiroKJ

Back to the forest you go.
Record Breaker
Joined
Jun 9, 2014
We have a kind of mild rivalry between Gracie and Ashley. Not the same level, though...

The rivalry is looking like this ATM: "Gracie or Ashley? Who will get 4th place at World Championships? Dun dun dun...." :slink: Doesn't quite have the same impact and they can only milk the nationals thing for so long.
 
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